eh is there really a big difference between using a fast weapon for MH at execute time?
I use hatchet / iblis and never switch , even at execute time.
If your OH is able to generate the 10 rage every 1.5s even including misses/glancing blows there is no reason to switch. Thats impossible with current itemization of course so switching helps.
Your hatchet with flurry up is swinging every 2.6/1.3 = 2s Your Iblis would swing every 1.6/1.3 = 1.23s.
Assuming every glancing blow, hit and crit generates enough rage to execute, and offhands never generate enough rage to execute (not exactly true but close enough) and you have +30% crit, +13 hit and +7skill. Also assume we are generating 20 rage per second with iblis and 21 rage per second with Hatchet (due to higher dps) if you never missed (bout equal to 17/18 rage per second on average) you get:
11.32 miss + 5.32 dodge = 16.64% no hit (2.76% double no hit, 13.88% single no hit) 83.36 hit (we will simplify and say no triple misses)
Hatchet:
Executes use 21 * 2 = 42 rage on average and hit for (600 + (32 * 15)) * (.3 * 2.2 + .7) = 1468.8
Execute every 2s 83.36% of the time
Execute every 4s 13.88% of the time
Execute every 6s 2.76% of the time
Average execute time: 2.388s
Execute dps: 615
Iblis: (Note this is a bit more complicated since Iblis swings faster than every 1.5s )
Exeucte uses 20 * 1.5 = 30 rage on average and hits for (600 + 20 * 15) * (.3 * 2.2 + .7) = 1224
Execute every 1.5s 83.36% of the time
Execute every 1.5s due to a miss + swing in under 1.5s 21.95% * 13.88% = 3.05% of the time
Execute every 1.98s on average 10.83% of the time (2.46 - 1.5)/2 + 1.5
Execute every 3.075s 2.76% of the time (1.23 * 2.5) (most unsure about this number)
Average execute time: 1.596s
Execute dps: 767
Thats a pretty big difference. Of course I didnt take into account AC on execute so reduce by 20% and your rage gen will vary, but the average execute time is pretty accurate assuming that a glance from iblis is generating enough rage to execute. If rage gen is lower than I stated, the numbers start skewing even more towards Iblis since that first 600 damage from execute for 10 rage is so good.
Deathwing: note that the above method can be used to approximate std dev on rage gen and you could probably make it more accurate with offhand info.
Thanks for posting this , i'm going to check it out next patchwerk or thaddius and see how much of a difference it makes on the DM.
Forgive my ignorance, but can someone explain how to plug in 2h weapons into that lovely spreadsheet? A guildy linked me to this forum/thread and i just now jumped in, still reading thru the threads.
Forgive my ignorance, but can someone explain how to plug in 2h weapons into that lovely spreadsheet? A guildy linked me to this forum/thread and i just now jumped in, still reading thru the threads.
I think you put the one handers to some dummy weapon like "sword" or "mace." then just select the 2hander you use. The dummy weapons zero out the stats without causing any errors. I could be wrong cuz i haven't looked at the sheet in a while.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xi6WsB8dZcE
Raiding music that gets things done.
The best Theorycraft and Mathcraft happens after a raid and before the sun comes up.
Last time I looked, the default spreadsheet (on page 1), has 2H weapon picked.
What you do if DW is already set is select the name of a weapon type for the 1H fields (like sword) and on the 2H field select the weapon you are using.
Darn, beaten to it.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
Last time I looked, the default spreadsheet (on page 1), has 2H weapon picked.
What you do if DW is already set is select the name of a weapon type for the 1H fields (like sword) and on the 2H field select the weapon you are using.
Err, this question might be off topic a bit, but I don't wanna spam the forum with two liner questions, and I can not seem to find an appropriate thread to attach to ATM.
I remember at a few weeks back there was a website where you put in your weapon DPS(es), and the website will return you a list of items on different slots in order of usefulness in helping with your DPS.
Err, this question might be off topic a bit, but I don't wanna spam the forum with two liner questions, and I can not seem to find an appropriate thread to attach to ATM.
I remember at a few weeks back there was a website where you put in your weapon DPS(es), and the website will return you a list of items on different slots in order of usefulness in helping with your DPS.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xi6WsB8dZcE
Raiding music that gets things done.
The best Theorycraft and Mathcraft happens after a raid and before the sun comes up.
However I did find a bug.. changing hamstring or whirlwind off lowers your execute dps. Make sure you use a silithid claw or something else fast so the execute spam speed isnt changing. Flurry chance is way down when it should be up (spamming every 1.5s) and the crusader calc ends up being wrong. This is overexagerating the effects of hamstring spam (and actually making my Silithid Claw even better than most pre-naxx alternatives).
There is another interesting question I have. If you use overpower + execute during execute spam in battle stance is it better than just execute spam in beserker stance? What if you dont have imp overpower? Is this modelable currently?
Interesting question celandro, i'd say most people would switch to zerg and just execute spam but yeah be interesting to see
also the current battle and overpower assumes you'll stay in battle stance for execute phase (thus lowering execute dps) which is not the case and probably further increases the adv atm of overpower/battle vs zerg/ww
The funny thing is though that while battle/overpower seems to have a clear advantage on the spreadsheet, testing in game its far less noticable, I think this is because sometimes you go for long streches with no overpower procs and sometimes you get like 3 in a row which is not usable. Where as zerg/ww gives you constant +3% crit and reliable ww every 10-12 seconds.
@Deathwing: Any chance that trinket/deathwish/recklessnes stacking is possible in the next version?
Those graphs look right. Not sure how to interpret them either, other than the obvious conclusion that it's better to balance out your stats than focus on one. But who needed a graph for that?
As for ratios...do you mean you'd like the slope plotted as well?
Celando would you be able to assist in interpreting the graphs or even in plotting them better?
Ren, did you enable macros? Did you check the box to the right of the execute switch line?
Celandro, thanks for the data about std deviation, I'll work on that. About hamstring/WW affecting 20% dps, that's basically extra crusader procs from more yellow hits. I didn't divide crusader into two different stages. I'm not sure it makes that big of a difference. Do you see an easy way to do it without splitting up a whole bunch of other stuff into 80%/20%? I'll look into that flurry chance thing some more.
Modeling overpower + execute should be possible.
Khalim, I'm working on stacking trinkets/ability, just not having much time at work recently. Hopefully next release.
Deathwing, do you have any plans on modeling using a simulator of some sort?
I'm currently trying to decide on what would be the best pattern of combat to use. IE staying in Battle and overpowering as soon as its up and spamming hs/hs as rage dumps vs zerker stance using whirlwind hs/hs and switching to overpower when the rage loss isn't large.
However, using a spreadsheet to decide on this is rather hard to do since you can't take into account spiking rage and other variables.
Deathwing, do you have any plans on modeling using a simulator of some sort?
I'm currently trying to decide on what would be the best pattern of combat to use. IE staying in Battle and overpowering as soon as its up and spamming hs/hs as rage dumps vs zerker stance using whirlwind hs/hs and switching to overpower when the rage loss isn't large.
However, using a spreadsheet to decide on this is rather hard to do since you can't take into account spiking rage and other variables.
The plans for a simulator is still there, yes. I've put it on hold until I've worked out all the theoretical stuff on the spreadsheet, because about 90% of the changes I've made to the spreadsheet are ones I would make to a simulator too. Updating two separate programs would be a headache.
I think the best dps pattern involves stance dancing(sorry, can't get rid of it!) and simple priority. That's why I put in the DPR and DPS values, so it's easy for users to prioritize their abilities. For the most part, BT every 6 seconds, WW every 12 seconds, fill in the gaps with hamstring or slam, and if you have even more rage after that, heroic strike. Switch to overpower if the rage cost isn't too high. That enormously oversimplyfies the whole process, but that's what you should strive to achieve. As you said, using my spreadsheet isn't the ideal tool figuring out the best way to DPS, even though I am trying to adapt it to that(and I think it's come a long ways). As always, the primary function of this spreadsheet is to help you pick out your clothes ;p
I've heard they have hidden bonuses to maces as well as possibly to 2hand weapons? I can't find a post here discussing that other than someone replying to someone using Ashkandi and Edgmasters calling them an idiot. Does anyone know of some actual testing on this?
I am already aware that if there is a bonus it does not appear on the character skill sheet.
I've heard they have hidden bonuses to maces as well as possibly to 2hand weapons? I can't find a post here discussing that other than someone replying to someone using Ashkandi and Edgmasters calling them an idiot. Does anyone know of some actual testing on this?
I am already aware that if there is a bonus it does not appear on the character skill sheet.
First time I've heard that. I doubt there's hidden auras on edgemaster's.
I have no real data, just someone saying that with Maces their average damage on a glancing blow went up while wearing edgemasters by the same amount as glancing blows with swords/axes. It's been a while since I've seen any discussion on it though. I think there may have even been a blue post about them back in the old days on the WOW forums.
The bonuses are somewhat odd since the description says "Swords Skill +7" instead of "one-handed sword skill +7" for example.
If no one has tested it with 2handers, I'm in a position to do the testing myself next week most likely. But if I can be lazy...
I looked at the graphs and I don't think they are very useful for answering the important questions.If I have X crit, Y hit and Z AP right now, my dps is D. If I want DPS +1, what combinations of X,Y and Z could I use to get it? This could be done with just 3 solvers by varying just 1 of the values at a time and setting constraint that the AP,crit,hit must be > 0 and less than 100, 100, 5000. This gives you what crit hit and ap are worth relative to each other at your current gear level. You can then run DPS +2,3,4,5,etc and graph those values compared to each other. Those values graphed will show you how the value of AP/crit/hit is changing at your current gear level.
For example with my current gear/spec the following is true:
1DPS = 4.066AP = .247 Hit = .127 crit aka 1 crit = 1.944 hit = 32.0 AP
10DPS = 42.63AP = 2.49hit = 1.27 crit aka 1 crit = 1.961 hit = 33.6AP
Unbuffed:
10DPS = 45.28AP = 3.11 hit = 1.84 crit aka 1 crit = 1.69 hit = 24.6AP
Which tells me I really need to get some more crit for raiding and AP for soloing:) AND helps show why Fahrazads Repeater is slightly more dps than Dragonbreath hand cannon when soloing but the same when raiding and should probably just be disenchanted :)
I have no real data, just someone saying that with Maces their average damage on a glancing blow went up while wearing edgemasters by the same amount as glancing blows with swords/axes.
The bonuses are somewhat odd since the description says "Swords Skill +7" instead of "one-handed sword skill +7" for example.
If no one has tested it with 2handers, I'm in a position to do the testing myself next week most likely. But if I can be lazy...
Anecdotal evidence from the WoW forums especially shouldn't be relied on. I seriously doubt edgemasters does anything to a mace weapon.
If you look at Maladath, it says Sword skill +6, and OEB says 2H Sword skill +8. I see nothing odd about the wording on the gloves.
You can test it if you want but be prepared to be disappointed; the glove does nothing to 2H weapons.
Also level 63s are hard to find out in wild (Healthglen has one, Teremus maybe?, and the faction bosses are too guarded).
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
Anyone know of a mod breaks out Glancing Blows separately from other damage? I can test this on Chromaggus or some nice long fight where I get a good sample.
Deathwing, I really want to get to the whole of the Sword Spec and Hand of Justice eating up flurry charges. I am very curious to see its effect on dps. Please tell me if you would like me to email you the logs.
Deathwing, I really want to get to the whole of the Sword Spec and Hand of Justice eating up flurry charges. I am very curious to see its effect on dps. Please tell me if you would like me to email you the logs.
If you can post them here, that would be great, I'm sure other people would like to see that as well. I'm actually having trouble accounting for SS/HoJ charges eating flurry charges in my equation, so if anyone has a suggestion there, that would be appreciated.
I have no real data, just someone saying that with Maces their average damage on a glancing blow went up while wearing edgemasters by the same amount as glancing blows with swords/axes. It's been a while since I've seen any discussion on it though. I think there may have even been a blue post about them back in the old days on the WOW forums.
The bonuses are somewhat odd since the description says "Swords Skill +7" instead of "one-handed sword skill +7" for example.
If no one has tested it with 2handers, I'm in a position to do the testing myself next week most likely. But if I can be lazy...
Open up your "skills" window. You'll see a skill called "Swords" and a skill called "Two-handed Swords." Edgemaster's adds to the one called "Swords," since that is what it says. Ergo it only affects 1H swords (and axes, of course). Don't waste your time "testing" it.
Hey, new to forums so I'm sure this is just an oversite of ym own but here is what I noticed.
When I enable my "execute weapon swap" to the same weapon I'm using for 20%+ my DPS seems to jump by about 20 as opposed to setting it to a generic "axe" or "sword" any possible reason for this?
09/21/06, 6:24 PM
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