DPS Warrior Spreadsheet - Page 26

Rezarel · 09/30/06, 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by Huthuthike

Diamond Flask is listed in the current version as a 37.5 str bonus. However, it only grants 12.5 str on average.

Trinkets default to a 120 sec cooldown - it's in a column off to the right of the stats. Change this to 360 and the Diamond Flask will work out properly. This field is editable so that you can fiddle with it to model fight lenghts that aren't an even multiple of the cooldown (so, if the fight's 7 minutes long, the Diamond Flask buff will be up for 2 of those 7 minutes - this is better than 12.5 str on average, and you'll need to play with the cooldown to model that).

I'm not sure what's up with the Gom Jabbar though.

Deathwing · 09/30/06, 11:01 PM

Ok, Jom is wrong, but please be aware of the cooldown field to the right next time.

As for everyone else proclaiming "I can't believe this weapon combo is better than this weapon combo", please give me specifics. What player level/enemy level are you using. What average level of gear are you using(MC/BWL/AQ40/Naxx)? Are you using execute switch? Horde or Alliance? This is the whole point of the spreadsheet, to consider the whole picture before making a judgement. It's really hard to give any feedback when someone says "this weapon is better than this weapon".

As for Maladath/Iblis, at level 60, alliance warrior in Naxx gear, it does outdamage CoTBD/CHT.

Has anyone taken a look at my WF/HoJ/SS eat flurry charges equation? Would be nice to have some feedback on that.

Dralmoo · 10/01/06, 11:26 AM

Mob levels 63, Player level 60, Execute Switch (to Core Hound Tooth) on, Tauren (so Windfury on
gear is BWL level. You can see my profile here. http://ctprofiles.net/803968

CotBD/CHT is 621 dps on the sheet. Iblis/CHT is 618 on the sheet. Iblis/Maladeth is 615
With WF off 556/558/563, so I guess it's just slow MH/fast OH > all with WF?

I would expect discounting WF that CotBD -> Iblis would be a much bigger upgrade by itself, though? The fact that Iblis can HS more is already taken into account by the calculated cooldown, right?

The sheet is fantastic, I'm just trying to make sure I understand it before trusting my gear decisions to it :)

Coolero · 10/01/06, 2:49 PM

I'm probably missing something really obvious, but calculated dps goes down if I set the mob level lower than player level. Is the spreadsheet not set up to handle this case?

I'm using all values as in the default spreadsheet, then changing the mob level from 73 to anything below 70. Sorry if I missed an explanation for this earlier on.

Deathwing · 10/01/06, 3:06 PM

Yes, the cooldown can take into account a faster weapon HSing more, but only if the rage is available. If you're using a CoTBD, and the calculated CD for HS is, let's say 10s, switching to Iblis won't do any good because the HS CD is much higher than the weapon speed.

Plugging in your gear into the spreadsheet, I get CotBD/CHT about equal to Iblis/CHT, and Iblis/Maladath beating them both. Though, all my dps numbers are over 750, I'm not sure what I'm doing differently from you. Are you using hamstring to its fullest ability. Make your yellow swings on the calc tab are close to but no over .666666. This ensure you're using all your time doing something. The reason CoTBD is comparable to Iblis is because of windfury is better with slow weapons MH, and so is HoJ and Overpower.

On a separate note for anyone, I was working more on my standard deviation. Some of the results I'm getting for slower setups like Gressil/THC, it's actually improving their execute speed. Mainly because MH glances and OH crits can still trigger an execute.

Basically, I calculate the chance of a hit that can generate enough rage landed in the last 1.5s. Or, if none those singular hits work, a combination of MH and OH, like MH glancing and OH crit. Multiply all those chances together, subtract it from one and that's the "slow" that is applied to max execute speed of 1.5s. Does that seem like the right thing to do?

Deathwing · 10/01/06, 3:07 PM

Originally Posted by Coolero

I'm probably missing something really obvious, but calculated dps goes down if I set the mob level lower than player level. Is the spreadsheet not set up to handle this case?

I'm using all values as in the default spreadsheet, then changing the mob level from 73 to anything below 70. Sorry if I missed an explanation for this earlier on.

The spreadsheet is setup to handle raid situations, so no, going below the player level is not supported.

snurre · 10/02/06, 12:30 PM

What really puzzles is me is that my DPS is different, depending on in which order I add stuff.. For instance, if I open my spreadsheet now it says 725.52 DPS. If I uncheck Windfury it goes down to 636.68 DPS, and when I check it again it goes up to 697.98 DPS.
Then I uncheck Strength of Earth and it goes down to 682.96 DPS. When I check it again, my DPS goes up to 725.52 DPS.

Celandro · 10/02/06, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by Deathwing

On a separate note for anyone, I was working more on my standard deviation. Some of the results I'm getting for slower setups like Gressil/THC, it's actually improving their execute speed. Mainly because MH glances and OH crits can still trigger an execute.

Basically, I calculate the chance of a hit that can generate enough rage landed in the last 1.5s. Or, if none those singular hits work, a combination of MH and OH, like MH glancing and OH crit. Multiply all those chances together, subtract it from one and that's the "slow" that is applied to max execute speed of 1.5s. Does that seem like the right thing to do?

1) Every weapon should be worse than 1.5s regardless. If you had 0.1 speed 100dps weapons the speed might be 1.50000000000001 but its still higher than 1.5 :). With 1.6ish weapons even with flurry your still going to be pushing 1.55 or so.

2) Mismatched speed weapons will help the slow MH/slow OH case a bit. The hits wont hit at the same time so there is more chance that a OH hit will come in in between the MH swings that will get you to 10 rage.

3) Matched speed weapons will not have any of the benefit from 2)

4) I have a feeling there is something wrong with the way you are doing your formula but I dont think its going to be a very easy formula in any case.

Deathwing · 10/02/06, 1:09 PM

Originally Posted by snurre

What really puzzles is me is that my DPS is different, depending on in which order I add stuff.. For instance, if I open my spreadsheet now it says 725.52 DPS. If I uncheck Windfury it goes down to 636.68 DPS, and when I check it again it goes up to 697.98 DPS.
Then I uncheck Strength of Earth and it goes down to 682.96 DPS. When I check it again, my DPS goes up to 725.52 DPS.

Are you using Excel? You probably don't have iterations up high enough. 20+ is a good number.

Deathwing · 10/02/06, 1:17 PM

Originally Posted by Celandro

Originally Posted by Deathwing

On a separate note for anyone, I was working more on my standard deviation. Some of the results I'm getting for slower setups like Gressil/THC, it's actually improving their execute speed. Mainly because MH glances and OH crits can still trigger an execute.

Basically, I calculate the chance of a hit that can generate enough rage landed in the last 1.5s. Or, if none those singular hits work, a combination of MH and OH, like MH glancing and OH crit. Multiply all those chances together, subtract it from one and that's the "slow" that is applied to max execute speed of 1.5s. Does that seem like the right thing to do?

1) Every weapon should be worse than 1.5s regardless. If you had 0.1 speed 100dps weapons the speed might be 1.50000000000001 but its still higher than 1.5 :). With 1.6ish weapons even with flurry your still going to be pushing 1.55 or so.

2) Mismatched speed weapons will help the slow MH/slow OH case a bit. The hits wont hit at the same time so there is more chance that a OH hit will come in in between the MH swings that will get you to 10 rage.

3) Matched speed weapons will not have any of the benefit from 2)

4) I have a feeling there is something wrong with the way you are doing your formula but I dont think its going to be a very easy formula in any case.

4. No, it's not a very easy formula. I have to write checks in for a whole bunch of conditions. The equation is so big(so far) that it's overrun into 4 other cells.

While I got your attention Celandro, wondering if I could pick your brain about calculating WF/HoJ/SS eating a flurry charge. The way we do flurry currently just looks for the possibility of a crit in the last 3 melee swings, unfortunately for WF/HoJ/SS, you HAVE to know the placement of the non-crit WF/HoJ/SS swing AND if there were any more crits afterward. I'm not sure if that's practical to calculate. I was thinking of altering the flurry cycle that if you're using WF/HoJ/SS, the cycle length is shortened by the chance of getting a WF/HoJ/SS swing during that cycle, hence making your chance to be flurried less.

Also, anyone know if weapon procs like fiery and lifestealing can proc WF, HoJ, etc?

Celandro · 10/02/06, 2:00 PM

I think reducing the flurry swings by the avg number of wf/hoj/ss swings you get in that time period would work.

Deathwing · 10/02/06, 2:37 PM

Originally Posted by Celandro

I think reducing the flurry swings by the avg number of wf/hoj/ss swings you get in that time period would work.

Sounds good, thanks

Riki · 10/04/06, 2:12 AM

I think how some of the buffs work in the current version don't match up with the WoW mechanics. For example i;m pretty sure Juju Power and Elixer of the Giants don't stack. However, in the spreadsheet it appears that they do. Not sure what else would be like that but I thought i should just point it out.

Emth · 10/04/06, 6:12 AM

Just incase you haven't seen it yet Deathwing (and everyone else)

Taken from the arena set thread:

Originally Posted by Eej

Entertainingly enough, Windfury got nerfed and I'm not sure if anyone made mention of it yet. It no longer actually gives you extra physical attacks but gives yellow damage ala SoC. So you don't get a bajillion mana back from Shamanistic Rage and for Warriors it doesn't give you extra Rage. At least, that's what I've been forwarded. This goes hand in hand with Rockbiter being changed to +flat damage based on weapon speed.

This is quite a change and It'd be interesting to see the impact (assuming is it true - sounds logical enough), i'm guessing the best way would be to have one tick box for pre expansion windfury and one box for this one?

◊ Zoroaster · 10/04/06, 6:55 AM

Originally Posted by Riki

I think how some of the buffs work in the current version don't match up with the WoW mechanics. For example i;m pretty sure Juju Power and Elixer of the Giants don't stack. However, in the spreadsheet it appears that they do. Not sure what else would be like that but I thought i should just point it out.

You're right about Juju power and Giants not stacking, also Winterfall firewater and Juju Might don't stack.

Deathwing · 10/04/06, 8:25 AM

So....don't click both of them?

That sucks if that's true about WF. I'll change it when more concrete data is posted.

Moogul · 10/04/06, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by Emth

Just incase you haven't seen it yet Deathwing (and everyone else)

Taken from the arena set thread:

Originally Posted by Eej

Entertainingly enough, Windfury got nerfed and I'm not sure if anyone made mention of it yet. It no longer actually gives you extra physical attacks but gives yellow damage ala SoC. So you don't get a bajillion mana back from Shamanistic Rage and for Warriors it doesn't give you extra Rage. At least, that's what I've been forwarded. This goes hand in hand with Rockbiter being changed to +flat damage based on weapon speed.

This is quite a change and It'd be interesting to see the impact (assuming is it true - sounds logical enough), i'm guessing the best way would be to have one tick box for pre expansion windfury and one box for this one?

Wow, huge nerf (for warriors at least). So much for my plan to go improved slam in the expansion...

For me at least (2H) this is probably going to be a big change in the way I dps, assuming it's true.

Khalim · 10/04/06, 9:45 PM

Yeah windfury nerf sux very hard, was looking forward to bok,bom,str of earth, winfury and bloodlust all at the same time! :)

Considering how much dps windfury adds I guess its not really a suprise as it seems like everyone belives warrior dps should be nerfed.

egnirys · 10/05/06, 12:08 AM

I noticed that 25 agility is missing from the 2H enchants, and 7 strength from the wrist enchants.
I added them to my copy, but I think it'd be great if you could add those for future versions.
Great work :)

Avam · 10/05/06, 8:52 PM

Orc vs lvl 63 Boss

With best gear avail ..... it was strange to find out that TF out performed Sundering Hatchet from Naxx. I assumed that the +5 Orc + edgemaster put the Axe ahead but it didnt. Is the TF proc overvalued in the spreadsheet ? Cause in Loatheb fights out of 350k total damage only about 15k is from the proc. Why is TF sooo good ? Even better than the Best Axe wielded on an Orc ?

Deathwing · 10/05/06, 9:24 PM

Does spore affect TF's crit chance as well? Also, I wouldn't call one weapon's proc being over 4% of your total dps small. Loatheb probably isn't the best fight to measure this with since you are using HS a lot. If you think TF is overvalued, please do some proc testing for me. I have pegged at 20% chance to proc per hit. That's really the only hard part to figuring out weapon proc dps. I'm confident the rest is right.

Yeah, keep forgetting to add 25 agi to 2H, thanks for reminding me. I don't plan to add 7 str to bracers...who can't find/afford +9?

Uthros · 10/06/06, 7:06 PM

EDIT:Found the answer!

Sormac · 10/06/06, 11:30 PM

Deathwing, thanks for this spreadsheet it's really clued me into alot about dps warriors in general. Really has helped me make the transition from PvP (recently hit Rank 14) and raiding Naxxramas.

I was wondering if you could show me how or explain to me the following situtation:

I've always read that with same speed weapons you will get an "extra effect" from flurry. So when I first started raiding I used both the 2.9 Grand Marshal Longswords (I'm a dwarf so no weapon skill here :( ). I never noticed the effect of an "extra attack" and found that eventually my DPS was higher offhanding the Grand Marshal's Swiftblade and the MH 2.9 sword.

I just recently acquired Ibliss for my offhand with the utilimate of acquiring Hachet of Sundered Bone to replace my main hand.

I'm making the correct choices? According to your spreadsheet I surely am... but I've wondered if I'm somehow missing out by Not using both the 2.9 speed weapons.

Thanks for your time,
Sormac

Deathwing · 10/07/06, 1:22 PM

I have exceptions for same speeds weapons in my calculations, so the scenario you have is covered. Personally, I think it's overrated. Unless you have GM weapons, trying to get same speed weapons will often leave you with a sub-par weapon in one of your slots. Getting a free flurried swing(which really isn't free) won't make up for the difference in dps and stats.

DarkStryke · 10/08/06, 2:19 PM

Iblis + Axe of unyielding strength right now, no edgemasters as I have annihalation gloves and am human. What would be the best to pair with the iblis given I really don't want to wear some lvl 40 epic itemization joke?

Thinking castigator, or grabbing a maladath from one of our bwl twink runs.