No, that's incorrect. Devs have posted that it's a simple average between what they want you to get at a certain level and what you actually got. That's why crits are impacted so hard, the number doesn't change for the type of hit. More specifcally, their internal part of the average is in rage per second. You make a crit, they divide it by your weapon speed and average the resulting RPS with their number. Hence, the extremes are brought in control. Any improvements to RPS are only going to be half as effective as they are now. Hopefully they aren't done tuning that internerl RPS number.
Hard to get a rage formula going when a lot of mods/UIs arent BC approved yet. So things like recap arent working and such. The only way to test rage gen is plotting data points of damage dealt vs. rage recieved in excel which is kinda tough to do atm.
But ill leave this tid bit with you. Even DW fury im seeing less rage just eyeballing it from live to beta. Alot of it probably has to do with the crits you deal and are yeilding less rage. Since fury banks on crits for flurry you can kinda tell how it affects the broad range of rage gen
Recap doesnt really show you how much rage you get does it?
It seems to me like the only way to do it is to plot it but since rage gen from a hit shouldnt be probabilistic (i think) it shouldnt be that hard right?
Sure you would have to use different dps, crit and level values and plot it by putting it into excel but I have a hard time seeing how to do it another way at all unless you want to write a mod yourself.
I do have to give them credit for the concept, its pretty damn elegant. How well the balancing and implementation of it works is up for debate, but they can keep tweaking it until they are happy.
I'd love to know the period that its balancing rage over, and whether its doing 1handers seperately, but it looks to be the least transparent mechanic in the game. From what I know, I am expecting an improvement in the pathetic rage generation of the Thunderfury.
I do have to give them credit for the concept, its pretty damn elegant. How well the balancing and implementation of it works is up for debate, but they can keep tweaking it until they are happy.
I'd love to know the period that its balancing rage over, and whether its doing 1handers seperately, but it looks to be the least transparent mechanic in the game. From what I know, I am expecting an improvement in the pathetic rage generation of the Thunderfury.
It doesn't look like it's balancing rage over time, each hit is balanced separately and it also looks like weapon type doesn't matter...just weapon speed. As it stands right now (hopefully it gets tuned) I don't think anyone will see a rage generation increase, a warrior in blues still sees a nerf.
If only these slackers in Beta could get their heads out of their arses and figure out the exact rage formula :(.
Im dying to see what I should aim for to start grinding with at lvl 60.
Tactical mastery isn't implemented at all. I put it under the talents as a way for people to keep track of how they spend their talent poins, but that's it. The whole problem to modeling tactical master accurately is it goes against the whole "average" modeling that the spreadsheet uses. Obviously, something like Execute Cooldown requires knowing instantaneous rage every 1.5s instead of average rage every 1.5s. If you look into the calculations of my alternate execute cooldown, they are nowhere near simple. And I'm not sure they are correct either, someone else looking at them would be appreciated.
So, back to the tactical mastery. Modeling this would require knowing the instantaneous rage when the user switches stances. Even the execute cooldown is easier, because you know exactly what the "when" is, it's a very short time period, and it precludes the usage of any other ability during its time period. I'm not ready to tackle something like tactical mastery just yet.
So, back to the tactical mastery. Modeling this would require knowing the instantaneous rage when the user switches stances. Even the execute cooldown is easier, because you know exactly what the "when" is, it's a very short time period, and it precludes the usage of any other ability during its time period. I'm not ready to tackle something like tactical mastery just yet.
I couldn't wrap my head around it and was prepared to be appropriately amazed if it was more than a placeholder. However, if someone is up to the task of modeling it, it could lead to some interesting info on things like "How much rage is worth sacrificing to switch to BS and Overpower to maximize DPS?" or "What is my DPS if I'm the imp TC bitch?"
I just realized something interesting on our recent patchwerk kills with Thunderfury. I get an average resist rate of about 20% on patchwerk. Does the spreadsheet take this into account? Here's parsed data from our last 3 PW kills:
Note: The average hit is higher on the first 2 kills is because we used nightfall for those attempts. Obviously we didn't for the third one. TF procs for 345 with the nightfall debuff.
No, I haven't taken into account resist rates for spells. I guess that would apply to Thunderfury, MSA, and...anything else? Resist rate is 17% for a level 63?
Also, since the expac's release date has been announced for January, I will be releasing at least one more spreadsheet for vanilla WoW.
Oh, question for anyone: has it been determined that melee's also gain +1 miss for each level the mob is above your's? Or is it that you can never really not miss? I have a screenshot from a recent Anub'rhekan attempt, I had +7 hit and missed a hamstring. I can't I really look for these things, but I noticed the miss right away. I'm thinking I would have noticed a yellow miss when I have over +9 hit.
I've recently stopped procrastinating and finished off my CC rep/badges grind for Earthstrike. My other trinkets currently are KotS and HoJ. Here's my question: should I replace HoJ for ES? The spreadsheet shows that HoJ is noticeably better, but then again it doesn't account for saving for optimal use (execute range) or stacking with Death Wish.
If I do use ES/KotS, which trinket should I macro with Death Wish? Is 20% haste for 15secs better than 280AP for 20sec for stacking purposes?
Also, since the expac's release date has been announced for January, I will be releasing at least one more spreadsheet for vanilla WoW.
Yes, the average over time is 17.
The spreadsheet should be interesting, but I recommend having two versions until the new content hits, so people don't get the two different talent sets confused.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
Oh, question for anyone: has it been determined that melee's also gain +1 miss for each level the mob is above your's? Or is it that you can never really not miss? I have a screenshot from a recent Anub'rhekan attempt, I had +7 hit and missed a hamstring. I can't I really look for these things, but I noticed the miss right away. I'm thinking I would have noticed a yellow miss when I have over +9 hit.
I think its that you cant ever go 100% hit.
I also have a couple of screenshots of misses on bosses with white hits and +7 hit but they dont seem to be common enough to actually be 1% missrate.
Oh, question for anyone: has it been determined that melee's also gain +1 miss for each level the mob is above your's? Or is it that you can never really not miss? I have a screenshot from a recent Anub'rhekan attempt, I had +7 hit and missed a hamstring. I can't I really look for these things, but I noticed the miss right away. I'm thinking I would have noticed a yellow miss when I have over +9 hit.
I think its that you cant ever go 100% hit.
I also have a couple of screenshots of misses on bosses with white hits and +7 hit but they dont seem to be common enough to actually be 1% missrate.
I have not missed a special attack excepting those when i had a -%hit debuff in 9+ months. Currently, I am at 19% hit with 310 skill. There really has not been extensive testing on +hit vs lvl 63 mobs and how much is needed for specials to land.
Oh, question for anyone: has it been determined that melee's also gain +1 miss for each level the mob is above your's? Or is it that you can never really not miss? I have a screenshot from a recent Anub'rhekan attempt, I had +7 hit and missed a hamstring. I can't I really look for these things, but I noticed the miss right away. I'm thinking I would have noticed a yellow miss when I have over +9 hit.
I havn't looked into it all that much but it seems like we have noone able to show misses with +9 hit from gear while sp00n had one with him missing a backstab with +8 hit. The same thread had a rogue with +25 to hit and no misses over a AQ40 clear, although only 3k white attacks. Seems like that would place specials at somewhere around 9% miss rate and DW at 25%, wouldn't be all that far fetched to guess at 8.6% and 24.6% with +3 levels or boss mobs as mentioned by several people. Thread with screens and discussion here, it would be interesting to see if anyone has figured out more since then.
Ok, I'll change the miss function in the next release.
Radiante, that function doesn't reflect at all what blizzard has said their rage normalization is doing. An average between your RPS and some constant RPS that blizzard comes up with based on your level should still be linear. Or, they've been telling us wrong.
Ok, I'll change the miss function in the next release.
Radiante, that function doesn't reflect at all what blizzard has said their rage normalization is doing. An average between your RPS and some constant RPS that blizzard comes up with based on your level should still be linear. Or, they've been telling us wrong.
Well if you read the CM post
We’d like to provide some clarity for rage normalisation as players seem to be working it out to be a rather large impact to what they’re able to generate with their current gear:
We have an internal target amount of rage we expect you to generate per second with your weapon. We take that rage-per-second number, multiply it by your weapon speed, and then average that with the rage you would have gained, purely based on the damage dealt.
Some observable effects: If you are doing close to expected damage at your level, crits will only increase your rage gained by about 50%; If you’re geared below the expected level, you will generally generate more rage with your hits than you used to; if you’re geared above the expected level, you will generally generate less rage with your hits than you used to.
In addition, players have been using a lot of numbers they derived from empirical testing at level 60 to try to calculate the rage they get at higher levels, assuming the rage generation formula will follow some linear curve it was following from 1-60. The rage generation curve beyond level 60 takes into account that we are giving out much better green and blue items, and so their empirical testing derived formulas from 1-60 will not be correct from 61-70.
He says that players assume a linear curve which kinda leads that it might not be a a linear curve. How can it be linear and get more rage when "you will generally generate more rage with your hits than you used to; if you’re geared above the expected level, you will generally generate less rage with your hits than you used to" unless it doesnt start from 0 hit = 0 rage . How can build 50% less rage unless with a crit unless you have diferent formulas for hit and crit. I dont know a linear curve just doesnt seem right
Ok, I'll change the miss function in the next release.
Radiante, that function doesn't reflect at all what blizzard has said their rage normalization is doing. An average between your RPS and some constant RPS that blizzard comes up with based on your level should still be linear. Or, they've been telling us wrong.
Well if you read the CM post
We’d like to provide some clarity for rage normalisation as players seem to be working it out to be a rather large impact to what they’re able to generate with their current gear:
We have an internal target amount of rage we expect you to generate per second with your weapon. We take that rage-per-second number, multiply it by your weapon speed, and then average that with the rage you would have gained, purely based on the damage dealt.
Some observable effects: If you are doing close to expected damage at your level, crits will only increase your rage gained by about 50%; If you’re geared below the expected level, you will generally generate more rage with your hits than you used to; if you’re geared above the expected level, you will generally generate less rage with your hits than you used to.
In addition, players have been using a lot of numbers they derived from empirical testing at level 60 to try to calculate the rage they get at higher levels, assuming the rage generation formula will follow some linear curve it was following from 1-60. The rage generation curve beyond level 60 takes into account that we are giving out much better green and blue items, and so their empirical testing derived formulas from 1-60 will not be correct from 61-70.
He says that players assume a linear curve which kinda leads that it might not be a a linear curve. How can it be linear and get more rage when "you will generally generate more rage with your hits than you used to; if you’re geared above the expected level, you will generally generate less rage with your hits than you used to" unless it doesnt start from 0 hit = 0 rage . How can build 50% less rage unless with a crit unless you have diferent formulas for hit and crit. I dont know a linear curve just doesnt seem right
Linear curves are defined as y=mx+b
Old: y = x
new: y= x/2 + norm
This is how deathwing is describing. It would still be linear, but it would start out at a higher point. Its not unfeasible, but the numbers can change between now and tbc release, so its hard to get a number from blizzard.
Here's how I understand that there formula works, in numerical form:
X = Damage you deal
C = Blizzard's internal RPS number, changes with level
W = Your weapon speed
Rage = ((X/PlayerLevel) + C*W)/2
If that's wrong, just based on the CM's post, please let me know so I can go take 7th grade math again. Radiante, your equation might fit the curve for the limited amount of data for level 67, but I don't see anything in your equation that deals with the internal RPS that the CM refers to.
As for 50% more rage on crits if you're doing expected damage at that level, just plug it in:
Only 50% more rage on crits. It shouldn't be too hard to reverse that equation around and find out what C is for a level. I assume you have beta access?
A couple musings:
I wonder if Endless Rage is applied before or after the average?
This will greatly devalue crit compared to hit, ap, and haste(the only rage generating stat that really isn't affected by this equation..30% haste is still 30% more rage over time). The richer get richer, the poorer get poorer. Those are exactly the stats that DW fury favors over 2H arms builds, and they already generate more rage.
If you have +5hit you certainly are NOT missing 3.6% of your specials on bosses. .6% is closer to accurate. Just because you get a very rare miss with +8hit does not mean the miss rate is 8.6% - 8% = .6%.
There seems to be diminishing returns on +hit after the first +5, just like there are noticable diminishing returns on +skill after the first +9. But in both cases its pretty negligable. I dps with +5hit on Nef all the time and my miss rate is uner 1%.
10/21/06, 9:54 PM
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