Well, I have a quick question, you have two weapons, the exact same dps and stats, one is 2.7 speed, and the other is 1.7. What combination would do the most damage? Two of the 2.7, two of the 1.7, 2.7 MH and 1.7 OH, or the 1.7MH and 2.7 OH. I heard two weapons of the same speed get four flurry charges, so I'd say that two 2.7s would be the most damage, any word on you guys from this?

Didn't the blue post say that +1 weaponskill was actually +0.1% crit rating. Or did they finally clear up the wording and i missed it?

ok this might be a very stupid question as I don't want to read all about Windfury with DW/Flurry in
the other thread:

How can it be that slow MH weapons get (so much) more dps with Windfury up than fast MH weapons?
Of course, on slow MH weapons WF procs hit a lot harder, but on the other hand, the windfury proc is chance to hit based, so it should proc
a lot more often on fast weapons, right?
I would say, if you don't take flurry into account, wf should give your mh weapon a 20% dps increase.

What am I missing?

as itemized +weapon skill already is a rating, a final skillpoint is probably a % value that doesn't decrease over levels.

Fast OH attacks. If you have 1.3 speed CHT in OH and it procs WF, you'll get a superhit with your 2.9 speed GM Sword for over 2 times the damage. If you have 1.3 daggers in both hands, these OH procced WF:s are just 1.3speed MH attacks that do much less damage.

Instants also proc windfury so those benefit slow weapons more and the fact that windfury procs aren't normalized.

While the buff does only apply itself to the mainhand the mechanics of WF totem allow the offhand to cause a WF proc with the mainhand weapon. Or it used to, with the advent of the shaman being able to buff both weapons seperately i'm not certain if the mechanics of the WF totem have changed.

There are many reasons a slow MH is better than a Fast MH.
1. Whirlwind. Would you rather your instant attack be done with average damage 172+AP or 107+AP? I think you'll want the +65 damage.
2. Procs. Most procs are calculated by their Procs Per Minute with a % chance based on the base weapon speed. A Slower weapon has a higher % Chance than a faster weapon. Since you're going to be getting the same number of instants, using a Slow MH increases the number of procs you're going to get overall.
3. HoJ/Sword Spec. Using a Fast OH and Slow MH, any extra attacks procced by both MH and OH yield a MH swing currently. Having a fast OH benefits having a slow MH more than a fast MH. See also Procs.
4. Execute Spam. With Flurry, a 1.9 speed weapon becomes 1.46 speed, just under global cooldown length, any faster and you'll be wasting MH rage fairly often by getting 2 attacks inbetween executes, too much slower and you have to wait too long between executes.
5. Windfury. See Procs.

Of course I agree with point 1 and 4, and btw Overpower is a MH damage based skill, too.
My original question was about the Windfury proc though, so I wonder whether it is true that
a) Offhand hits proc a MH windfury attack
b) Windfury proc chance depends on the weapon speed, as in you get the same amount of procs with a fast or slow MH.
(Even though it says "Each hit has a 20% chance of granting the attacker 1 extra attack")

If a) or b) (or both) are true, it is clear why a slow MH is so much better with a WF totem.

Neither are true, it's a MH Weapon buff only from the totem, and it's a flat 20% chance.

http://www.thottbot.com/beta?sp=25587

Slow MH is better because you will almost always do the same number of instant attacks regardless of MH Speed. in 27 seconds a 2.7 speed weapon swings 10 times, a 1.8 speed swings 15 times. Average 2 WF procs with 2.7, 3 with 1.8 however the 2.7 will do 50% more damage than the 1.8 per swing, so from auto attacks they're identical. However, you also get 4.5 BT, 2.7 WW, 10.8 Hamstring (assuming you generate enough rage) = 18 other attacks. That's going to proc 3.6 more WF for both the slow and fast MHs. Slow still does 50% more Damage than the Fast. In this comparison, (5.6 * 1.5) / (6.6 * 1) = 1.2727. A 2.7 speed MH will do 27.27% more damage from Windfury than a 1.8 speed will.

While we were not able to do conclusive testing, another fury warrior and I spend time in Naxx last night testing some configurations of gear and talent use. We used SWswats, and each other's performance, as a way to set a benchmark. Alliance buffs, no pots. Both in the +2000 AP 15ish hit 30%ish crit (depending on gearing on the run)
Both specc'd 3/48/0

Observations:
--AP is everywhere (raid buffs, gear, imp zerker etc)
--Hit value reduced because of reduction in weapon skill bonus
--Crit? Well, it's critical. The difference between rage starved and rage dump is the crit.
- Until I have data otherwise, I'll probably prioritize crit > AP > hit, given current gearing.
Imp Heroic strike is marginal, I don't think I would have spent the points on it. Probably will be dropped the next respec.
And *most importantly* rampage is a waste of time. Quite simply it is a bunch of extra cooldown management, and neither of us could find any net difference in Rampage up vs. Rampage down and using that rage for other things.

This may change as we get new ranks of it, level up, and gear up, or we may find a different way to arrange gear and sequencing...but in the interim, BT/WW/(HS/Hamstring) gives the same performance as the pre-2.0 playstyle.

Fogbug - my comment might have been a little misleading... In terms of relative raid performance, well gear fury is still top 5. Prior DPS to todays DPS? Frankly I can't tell. I didn't write it down before. The main point I was making is: Rampage sucks. Use the rage for bloodthirst.

Anyone with alternatives for Rampage? It's just pure shit atm, so silly really, feel totally disgusted by playing a warrior on moments like this.

has anyone reached Loatheb or Thaddius yet, and if so, how does the rage normalization affect our rage gen in these particular fights? these were 2 fights where we really could shine, so would suck if they took that away from us ;)

Reports are in that even with thaddius buff, rage is still gimp

Loatheb and Thaddius rage gen have been reduced substantially, but you can work with it. I was #6 on the Loatheb damage meters following five mages (I was in the second spore buff group). I was #1 on the Thaddius by a significant amount. We still shine just fine.

I just did thaddius 2.0 tonight. Rage gen was noticably less ( I could get to zero rage ) it also built up fairly quickly. Damage will be affected by the loss of Impale... which obviously is a huge bonus(detriment currently) in the thaddius fight given heroic and BT spam.

Im pretty much confused by this normalization. How exactly do you get more rage from endless rage by faster weapons?

My bad i was thinking of Unbridled Wrath (original post corrected).

Take a 0/31/30 or 5/35/21 (no weapon spec, dps'ing offtank) and some easy & cheap PvP Weapons :
http://www.thottbot.com/beta?f=w&nam...ity=3&minl=100

Swords : 2.80 & 1.80 Daggers : 1.40 & 1.40

You're gona hit a lot more often with daggers (like 65% more), will those extra hits (translated into more rage via Unbridled Wrath)
with the assistances of +8Dmg stones (Increased efficiency on faster weapons) generate enough dps to balance
the loss of dmg via extra attacks ? (whirlwind & Overpower).

You'd make a much better case with 1.6 speed Swords than 1.4 speed Daggers let's say. Sword normalization is far more favorable.

There's really not many 1.6 speed swords.

If the "flurry for 4 swings" trick still works, you'll be better off using a 2.7/1.8 combo than a 2.8/1.8

It would be interesting to see a comparison of the damage gained from using a slow weapon for higher WW (and procs) vs extra rage from faster weapons.

I always feel foolish posting what are possibly stupid questions, but, here it goes:

Would the bonuses from either 2h spec or 1h spec affect BT? Ie: if I had 5/5 1h spec and my BT normally hit for 1k, would it now hit for 1.1k? or would it just hit for 1k since I do not need a weapon on to use it and it is not weapon based?