Actually armor matters more than it seems at first, in pvp that is. 6 months ago I had 2k less armor than I do now, or say 1.5k taking the prepatch value; there is a difference in between. I cannot, of course, give some parsed data of my empirical observations; I just see it when a kingsfall ambush crits for 1,5k.
Many people tend to think leathers are leet to use in pve dps. Just check the stats first please; belt of never ending agony isnt better than girdle of the mentor, boots of shadow flame isnt better than chromatic boots; but ghoul skin tunic is better than breasplate of annihilation.
I honestly can not understand how so many DPS warriors completely ignore Stamina and Armour on their DPS gear. Sure, there are a few fights where stamina & armour are of little or no use, and its fine to have 4.2k hp & 3.5k armour, but there are just too many fights with adds, cleaves, or random AoE dmg.
Stamina is useful on almost every fight in the game. Particularly when you consider a DPS warrior is often taking 10% more magic dmg, on top of cleaves etc. I've got 2 sets of DPS gear. One has a nice mix of Staminia/DPS stats (5.7k hp unbuffed) and the other is just pure DPS gear with much less stam/armour etc. On the majority of fights I end up choosing to go with the extra stamina/armour, simply because the extra survivability and utility far outweigh the marginal dps increase.
Anub: Stamina & Armour help mitigate the impale. In addition, more stamina and armour help if you need to aoe taunt when the small spiders spawn.
Feralina: Most of the time our DPS warriors need to slap on DPS gear + shield and Tank one of the adds at the start while we dps it down, so a nice mix of gear is good.
Mexxna: We use DPS warriors to AoE taunt the spiders that spawn, so Stam & HP are useful here. Stam is also nice if you get punted to the wall.
Patch: Stam & armour are irrelevant here.
Gluth: Stam & armour not much use (unless you need to switch from DPS duty to piercing howl, but its certainly not essential).
Thaddius: Stamina is very important here, but armour less so. We have had DPS warriors pull agro and survive, but most of the time armour makes little/no difference.
Noth: Good Stam/Armour can mean you survive a hit, while the MT gets him back. In addition, you will take cleaves from the spawns.
Heigan: I have ended up tanking heigan (when our MT DC'ed) from around 40% to death in DPS gear on more than one occasion. Otherwise enough stam to survive 1 splash is highly recommended.
Loatheb: Armour irrelevant, but Stam is always useful on this encounter.
Razivius: Stam & armour aren't going to do you much good if you get agro. I've never seen an OT go down, so I can't see any situation when you might need to take over on OT'ing.
Gothik: If you are dpsing, HP & armour are pretty much essential due to the cleaves and the high chance of pulling agro at some point.
4h: Is there such a thing as DPS warrior on this fight? :p
Ok so I'm working on a new spreadsheet, and I want to first say that I've made some STARTLING discoveries. At this time, I am chiefly concerned with modeling the effects of the feedback from yellow damage crits into flurry and sword spec. This is particularly difficult in the case of Flurry for me because I don't want to use a circular reference in the spreadsheet. Does anyone have any ideas that might be useful?
I honestly can not understand how so many DPS warriors completely ignore Stamina and Armour on their DPS gear. Sure, there are a few fights where stamina & armour are of little or no use, and its fine to have 4.2k hp & 3.5k armour, but there are just too many fights with adds, cleaves, or random AoE dmg.
Stamina is useful on almost every fight in the game. Particularly when you consider a DPS warrior is often taking 10% more magic dmg, on top of cleaves etc. I've got 2 sets of DPS gear. One has a nice mix of Staminia/DPS stats (5.7k hp unbuffed) and the other is just pure DPS gear with much less stam/armour etc. On the majority of fights I end up choosing to go with the extra stamina/armour, simply because the extra survivability and utility far outweigh the marginal dps increase.
Anub: Stamina & Armour help mitigate the impale. In addition, more stamina and armour help if you need to aoe taunt when the small spiders spawn.
Feralina: Most of the time our DPS warriors need to slap on DPS gear + shield and Tank one of the adds at the start while we dps it down, so a nice mix of gear is good.
Mexxna: We use DPS warriors to AoE taunt the spiders that spawn, so Stam & HP are useful here. Stam is also nice if you get punted to the wall.
Patch: Stam & armour are irrelevant here.
Gluth: Stam & armour not much use (unless you need to switch from DPS duty to piercing howl, but its certainly not essential).
Thaddius: Stamina is very important here, but armour less so. We have had DPS warriors pull agro and survive, but most of the time armour makes little/no difference.
Noth: Good Stam/Armour can mean you survive a hit, while the MT gets him back. In addition, you will take cleaves from the spawns.
Heigan: I have ended up tanking heigan (when our MT DC'ed) from around 40% to death in DPS gear on more than one occasion. Otherwise enough stam to survive 1 splash is highly recommended.
Loatheb: Armour irrelevant, but Stam is always useful on this encounter.
Razivius: Stam & armour aren't going to do you much good if you get agro. I've never seen an OT go down, so I can't see any situation when you might need to take over on OT'ing.
Gothik: If you are dpsing, HP & armour are pretty much essential due to the cleaves and the high chance of pulling agro at some point.
4h: Is there such a thing as DPS warrior on this fight? :p
Thanks for the information everyone who replied. The guild I am in is only up to Fankriss, however (and wiping due to the BS/DS aggro nerfs). I should've been a little more specific, but it seems to me the "the best DPS gear" for a warrior consists of at least 1-2 pieces of leather (Qiraji Execution Bracers & Gloves of Enforcement) until at least C'Thun for the Gloves of Annihilation. Once you get into Naxx, then you some awesome plate drops start popping up (Legplates of Carnage, Wristguards of Vengeance, etc.), and a lot of the fights pre-Naxx/most of BWL you can really do damage without getting hit at all (unless you're stupid, cough) or with a minimum of damage taken. However, I do agree that DPSing in crap armor/crap stamina would get you destroyed in a lot of fights--I can't tell you how many times my former guild's top DPS warrior died over the course of different fights (he lagged a lot though, so I think most of it was preventable). Thanks for the replies, though, it's good to see arguments coming from both sides.
I havent seen any real test for prot spec , so after getting my GM sword today I wondered how protection was. After running around grinding some mobs I was fastly suprised, I killed really fast and efficient. I've played both fury and been a main tank for a guild , but protection was never any worthy dps.
Well the setup was simple and nothing too complicated. Warrior - Druid - Paladin , the druid was tanking a servant and me and the paladin were dpsing our target.
The gear used can be found in my profile. (for the prot build , the tank profile build was used combined with the fury gear)
Circumstances : Blessing of Might - Leader of the pack - Battleshout - 5 sunders - Attacking from behind.
Did 3x 6-7 minute dps runs comparing the dps to eachother and I had the following results.
Fury : average 625 -> 664 dps
Attack routine : BT - WW- Heroic
(bit clumsy couple times forgetting rampage , deathwish at start , sunder ran off , battle shout expired etc so it could be higher)
Protection : average 573 -> 618 dps
Attack routine was Devastate -> WW when lot of rage.
(battleshout ran out once and bom other time but still)
I know my gear aint the best around , I've been mainly tanking in naxxramas and as for testing this out in raid enviroment it's impossible for me now since I'm not in a raiding guild anymore.
Maybe someone else can do the testing and bring some numbers here with better gear and a raid boss enviroment just for comparison.
I'd like to apology for my bad english if I made mistakes , hope it's understandable.
1H and 2H weapon spec affect ALL damage, where did these rumors start?
Bloodthirst does not require a melee weapon. It's damage is based soley on your AP as far as I can tell. Victory Rush would be unaffected by weapon specs also for the same reason.
Bad logic, or else the thaddius buff wouldn't affect BT damage.
1H and 2H spec are "mod physical damage" aura, and all damage a warrior does is physical, with the exception of some weapon procs.
I assume most people here have been charmed by Skeram? He applies a 300% damage increase aura. Now, that alone, in some tank gear too, would not account for why my deep wounds would tick for 1k while charmed. The 300% modifying weapon damage, and then modifying deep wounds again for an effective 900% increase does account for the huge damage increase. Hence, you can draw from that example 1H and 2H spec affect all warrior damage.
Curiously, this also might mean that 2H spec increases MS damage by ~10%, depending on how much weapon damage is compared to the static part of MS.
I tested some with 2hand fury on beta and im fairly certain that 2hand spec does affect bloodthirst damage and victory rush damage (also i found that crusader adds only 60 strenght at 70). I would assume it affects MS and all aother damage as well consequently. The one gripe i have is that sweeping strikes does not proc off victory rush. I think this would make a nice difference for skilled fury warriors in farming/leveling and i submited a bug on it. It's definitely not easy to kill something, loot it, engage two more mobs, and get a sweeping strikes in before using victory rush, all in a 15second timespan while monitoring your healh and such. Getting SS to proc off execute is a bit silly and impractical to me since id just rather kill one mob and stop its dps on me instead, but i think SS/VR would provide a nice alternative if your feeling adventursome.
Since deathwing probably isnt updating his SS now I tried updating my own.
First Ive heard that glancing blows occur less frequently and/or have less of a reduction because of the +skill change. It was 40% chance with 35% reduction base I think?
Second I am having trouble getting a proper model for flurry, or mabey Im just trying too hard to make it accurate. Mostly with how instant attacks affect the white hits, as the damage would change depending on if the next swing after the instant was MH or OH.
First Ive heard that glancing blows occur less frequently and/or have less of a reduction because of the +skill change. It was 40% chance with 35% reduction base I think?
It used to be 40% chance (+3 lvl mobs) with a 30% reduction in damage.
It is said to be now a 40% chance with a 24% reduction in damage.
Is the link to it. One of the things about this online version is that all the form objects are not supported, so all my pretty buttons and so forth don't show up.
Here are some simple instructions.
If the field has a yellow header, it is meant to be manually changed. If it doesn't, change it at your own risk.
Rampage and Battle Shout are flags where 1 is meant to be "on" and 0 is meant to be "off". This will assume they refresh perfectly after the durations.
The talent fields are all meant to be integers from 0 (off) to whatever the maximum amount of points you can put in that talent.
It's very rough and very early. Right now, there is no feedback from yellow crits into flurry, and that is my next major project. Eventually, I will add items and improve the formatting.
Are you supposed to be able to edit it on the site? Never used google docs before, and I can't install OpenOffice at work. ;/
I honestly don't know. I should have done more research on this google docs thing, and if it doesn't work out, I'll just upload to rapidshare. Regardless, try downloading it then re-upping it to your account, and you should be able to edit it from the website.
Are you supposed to be able to edit it on the site? Never used google docs before, and I can't install OpenOffice at work. ;/
I honestly don't know. I should have done more research on this google docs thing, and if it doesn't work out, I'll just upload to rapidshare. Regardless, try downloading it then re-upping it to your account, and you should be able to edit it from the website.
This worked (downloading then uploading to my account).
Can bloodthirst trigger a "chance on hit" proc, such as crusader?
Yes. (Nearly) all special attacks do this. I'm alliance so I don't understand the dynamics of WF totem extra-attacks (yet...) -- otherwise I can't think of any specials that wouldn't count. Also as far as I know, the ppm is based on the weapon speed that has the enchant so all instant/extra attacks boost your effective ppm.
I've been playing around with the new enchanting stuff, and especially with the huge amount of crit rating at 70 you need for 1% crit (around 22ish crit rating, or 31-32 agi = 1% crit). It= looks like its really going to be a downfall to crit whores like myself. Kind of sad. :(
Question though on aldor/scryer rewards. I really like aldor for its 30ap/10cr enchant. But maybe 20ap/15cr is worth it to offset the agi/crit loss. Also Scryer has the firepower alchy recipie I might want ;)
Anyone else debating between the two? All in all it looks like Aldor might be just slightly better but anyone planning for Scryer instead?
Also, if yall havent seen the boot enchants: There are two runspeed enchants that also come with either 6agi or 8sta. Or a 5% resist snare/+10hit rating enchant. I love my runspeed but +hit enchant on boots... mmm...
Edit: My warrior looks suspiciously like a dr00d....hrm <smacks the murlocs with staff>
Staff Warriors: The Revolution
"It lets me skip the Weapon specs!" ;)
The boot enchant decisions are tough, but I'm pretty sure I'll be going with the Aldor faction. The only downside is that my constant questing partner and girlfriend is a healy druid, so she may well go Scryer.
Staff Warriors: The Revolution
"It lets me skip the Weapon specs!" ;)
The boot enchant decisions are tough, but I'm pretty sure I'll be going with the Aldor faction. The only downside is that my constant questing partner and girlfriend is a healy druid, so she may well go Scryer.
Yea, I'm really leaning toward the 5%snare/+1 hit enchant (dedicated guild fury war), but runspeed is such a great enchant to have, esp when you tack on the 6agi/8sta for tanks. Alternately theres also straight +12agi or sta, but I'd take hit/run anyday over that. What made you chose Aldor over Scryer, I think the (atleast dps) enchant differance of 10ap > the 5cr on Scryers, but other than that, nothing else jumps out at me since there are no recipies for me, aside from the lone firepower elixer.
Ironicly its the same for me, constant quest partner is a tree, usually with the odd hunter/mage or whatnot.
.....Your not questing with my girl are you? *gasp*
Yea, I'm really leaning toward the 5%snare/+1 hit enchant (dedicated guild fury war), but runspeed is such a great enchant to have, esp when you tack on the 6agi/8sta for tanks. Alternately theres also straight +12agi or sta, but I'd take hit/run any day over that. What made you chose Aldor over Scryer, I think the (at least dps) enchant differance of 10ap > the 5cr on Scryers, but other than that, nothing else jumps out at me since there are no recipes for me, aside from the lone firepower elixer.
Assuming that I go for any rep rewards, the sword and the ring on the Aldor side are more my style. In reality, the shoulder enchants are the most important part, which I could be happy with either. She may end up as an owlbeast by the time we are 70, but she always seems to go back to healing (although I promptly died to critline-watching when she equipped some new damage leather last night to "try it out"). I'd say I'm open to either.
Ironically its the same for me, constant quest partner is a tree, usually with the odd hunter/mage or whatnot.
.....Your not questing with my girl are you? *gasp*
12/22/06, 2:04 PM
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