Here is DW fury spreadsheet that I have been working on for a little while. It is based on pf's rogue sheet retooled for warriors including the 2.0 changes (rage formula, talents, combat rating, etc). It should help with comparing gear against possible upgrades.

http://files.filefront.com/FuryDPS_0.../fileinfo.html

Couple notes:
- only for DW fury warriors at the moment.
- scaling for abilities from 60->70 not complete.
- very much a work in progress

I should have more time to work on it once I get to 70.

Questions, comments and complaints are welcome.

Any thoughts about taking it in this direction:
?

Otherwise, it seems nice, although I'm at work and only played with it for a few seconds...

I always thought it was cumbersome to work with the totals when swapping gear around. For instance if I comparing two belts each time I would have to track what the total was (for each attribute) before the belt, the stats of each belt and remember to add and subtract them accordingly. I can certainly add this in a later revision.

Well, either that or a simpler way to add new gear, maybe even just a line where you can add in raw stats that accepts negatives (ie, I could see the differnces between what I have and what I'm considering, type those in, and know which is better before my group members realized I alt+tabbed)... Don't get me wrong - I'm happy to have any spreadsheet, and I appreciate the work :)

Since this is based off of my spreadsheet, or I should say chalon's since almost none of my work is represented in this sheet, I am familiar with it and you can easily do what you want by using the buffs section of the spreadsheet. Simply remove some buff like fortitude and turn it into the difference between the 2 items you want to compare. Negative values will work just fine.

I went with the Scryer.

I have just switched over to my warrior for TBC, but it seems to me like the rage normalization has made it so that the days of endless rage (while DPS'ing) are over. Based on http://www.wowwiki.com/Rage, crit plays a much greater role in generating rage than AP, especially at the lower end of the crit range.

My gut is saying that there will be a balance between generating rage through crit while trying to push AP higher for damage. Very much like the balance between crit vs dmg that casters have always had to consider.

I did some quick partial derivatives on the rage formula for AP vs crit rating. Rage generation scales with AP by a factor of (15/15386) whereas rage generation scales with crit rating by a factor of (weapon speed * 5/4) in the main hand and (weapon speed * 5/8) in the offhand. Taking another look at my numbers, I didn't include the reduced damage effect that dual wielding has, so it would bring AP scaling even lower in terms of rage generation.

Has anyone done some spreadsheet work that takes skills used based on average rage generation into account?

I suggested getting rid of gear selection because it's going to be total hell putting in all the new gear with TBC. Raw stats works fine if you want to compare different gear for a slot. Just have two raw stat lines and check box next to each one.

I think I speak for all of us when I say I really miss the spreadsheet.

In the meantime, does anyone have some guesstimate type figures for AP vs Crit for white DPS at least? (eg the old rule of thumb was 20 AP = 1 crit). Crit in general seems to be at a premium but there clearly has to be some point where X AP > Y critical strike rating.

Blizzard sets 10 critical strike rating equal to 20 attack power with itemization. I don't know which benefits warriors more though =/.

I have a replacement spreadsheet that is nearing release. There is an older version a few posts up if you want to use it. The biggest hold up has been sorting through the new gear.

For the moment you can use your old conversion of 20 AP = 22 crit rating though I have no idea without punching the numbers of how accurate that is.

IMHO this heavil changed.
I'd certainly consider 1% crit (22 crit rating) to be worth more than 35 AP.
40 AP being 1% crit seems very plausible.

This is very interesting and worth calculating now. I'm at a bit over 1600ap unbuffed but my crit is at 19-21% (and around 9% hit without talent I think) and that's in zerker stance when I'm dwing. Ap might not be proper cause I got +10% str instead of AP now (full prot) but around that anyway. Crit seems a lot more scarce and getting ap is stupidly easy.

I've found the opposite to be true. Right now i'm sitting on 36% crit, and I wouldn't mind switching some of it out for a bit more AP.

(Note that my 36% is with Axe Spec + Cruelty Dual-Wielding two axes)

That's certainly suprising to me.
Given: With axe spec you gain 5% crit.

But that still does not explain the huge delta to my crit rating of my former and newly found fury gear (which most of the time badly lacks crit).
Even swapping trinkets/rings to heavily favour crit instead of AP and hit, I doubt I would crack the 26-27% barrier in crit stance.

And this experience corresponds with that of my warrior fellows.

How do you get 1600 ap or 30% crit unbuffed without gimping the other a lot? Unless Im horribly lacking some info, that must not be possible with blues, or early epics. I have 22% crit and 1300 ap, in battle stance; and this is with the best gear I could find, out of raiding. Can you post a profile or something? This was very demoralizing for me.

As a slight aside, what is the feeling on current enchants for a dual wield fury setup? Is crusader still the best choice at 70, even with the reduced str on the proc, or should I be leaning in the direction of mongoose? I'm about to finish my primal edge, and could use some advice on what to start gathering mats for.

Because I only got my home internetconnection 2 days ago,I have only now started on the level 70 instances. The last instance I did before that was mana tombs, so most of my gear is from quests and lower instances.

I currently have 24.87% crit 6,09% hit (without talents) and 1258 AP

I still have a red and blue socket free from an upgrade I got yesterday and only my bracers are enchanted with AP yet, the rest is still free...

Personally I rate crit > AP since I cant live without flurry. I have not checked any gear setups yet, but I am positive I can get many upgrades still seeing I am still wearing <lvl 65 gear and greens (Blackhands breath anyone?)

I'm at around the same. I just hit 70, and I have around 1200AP, 22% crit, 10% hit in Berserk Stance. However, I don't feel like I've even touched the 70 itemization; I'm in mostly Quest rewards and instance drops (and 60 gear...). I still have almost 3 zones worth of quests, many with great rewards, and I haven't gotten a useful drop from an instance beyond Sethekk.

Well for DPS you always want to stack crit/hit over ap. You can buff ap more then you can buff crit/hit. You want to keep Flurry/Rampage up all the time.


Ap Buffs/Consumables

Onslaught elixir (60ap), Elixir of Major Strength (70ap), Blessing of Might (220ap), Strength of Earth totem (172 ap), Rampage (250ap), Mark of the Wild (28ap), Blessing of Kings (10% more Str), Imp Zerk Stance (10% more ap), and if u want to go all out Flask of Relentless Assault (360ap)

Crit Buffs/Consumables

Mongoose(28cr), Elixir of Greater Agility(35agi), Leader of the Pack(5%crit), Sanctified Crusader (3%crit), Mark of the wild (14agi), and Elemental Sharpening Stonesx2(56cr)


I prolly missed something. Anyways Crit buffs have gone up more since feral druids/ret pallys are more usefull but u can buff ap more still. also the ap buffs are mainly pots/pally buffs wich you should have all the time while some of the crit buffs leader of the pack/sanctified crusader might not always be there due to the druid/pally needing to heal on certain encounters.

I forgot my exact stats in dps gear i think i was at 21%crit/1300ap. I have been prot for a while so i havnt got any new dps gear all my gear was from early 5 mans/quests and old 60 stuff.

The fact that you can buff ap doesnt diminish its value. Attack power is giving a flat bonus to dps, the more the better. Also, trying to balance ap/crit is a bit odd; when comparing 2 items, one of them is obviously better than the other even before you look at the rest of the gear, so you take it. When you fall in doubt, which shouldnt happen in every item slot; a bit of theorycraft may then come. That said, stacking a stat isnt better either; same point, backwards.

It's not like some small change in a few items will cause a butterfly effect in your dps. They all contribute a small amount, try to predict what the relation in between at your stat level is, and choosing gear becomes easier.

I don't believe he is saying the value of AP is lowered simply because you can buff it. The value of hit on items is higher because you can't. It's also easier to give a lot bigger boost to AP through buffs than it is crit.

For those who values crit/hit over AP, have you
- considered that Bloodthirst scales insanely with AP
- specced into improved berserker stance

When I was DW fury, I always considered strength and AP to be the main stat. At lvl70 with mostly blues I had ~1700 AP, ~18% crit and ~8% hit in berserker stance, unbuffed. It seems to me that 1str is better than 1crit or 1hit given today's circumstances.