DPS Warrior Spreadsheet - Page 51

Machinator · 05/25/07, 2:04 PM

Originally Posted by Zakath

Dual-wielding miss question
15% seems like a very reasonable compromise for your white dmg.

For rogues with combat potency anyway, and it still seems like a guess rather than anyone giving a reason.

With enough hit to not miss specials, 8.6% I believe, and assuming that glancing is now 20% your crit cap from the back would be 57%, and from the front 45.8%. Even counting things like mongoose procs boosting your crit it seems there is little reason at all to get +hit beyond 8.6%.
Perhaps blizzard did a favor by not stacking so much +hit on the dps plate?

ikillyouheal · 05/25/07, 6:59 PM

::Edit:: Nvm me, removed.

Graul · 05/26/07, 1:48 AM

This is probably going to seem like a stupid question, but when an item or enchant has an effect that happens on a "hit", that includes crit as well doesn't it? I've always been under the assumption that the "hit" in the tooltip just meant any blow that lands.

Merzhul · 05/26/07, 4:30 AM

Originally Posted by Graul

This is probably going to seem like a stupid question, but when an item or enchant has an effect that happens on a "hit", that includes crit as well doesn't it? I've always been under the assumption that the "hit" in the tooltip just meant any blow that lands.

Yes, CoH can proc from crits/specials, pretty much anything that lands damage, except other procs such as Fiery or Lifestealing. Used to proc from those too -- Thunderfury with Lifestealing was beyond godly. Oh, how I miss those days.

B.Lan · 05/30/07, 4:26 AM

Hey there.

Is there a new version available, with the new Glancing Blows and Flurry Speed implemented?

gatz · 05/30/07, 5:19 AM

Originally Posted by Elic

http://files.filefront.com/Warrior_0.../fileinfo.html
1.1.0

Simplified cycle pages, look at the top corner of the Gear Buffs page for cycle options.

Remember that my goal for the spreadsheet is to figure out gear in order to maximize dps. The cycles are just for a rough estimate of what the player should be doing. I don't even think a cycle is the most optimal way to play it just makes modeling easy.

Also, I only test with Excel so I make no guarantee about Openoffice.

Thank you for the updates.

It seems that the blood frenezy option doesn't work.

Salted · 05/30/07, 1:13 PM

The spreadsheet in the OP should be updated, imo.

I think what a lot of people are looking for is a simple rule so they don't need to break out their calculators during a raid and hold up the looting process....

So if little baby warriorling pulls on your coattails and says "Mister Mister, what gear should I get to make my dps pwnz0r", what do you say?

Based on knowing the mechanics of warriors, you could say: Crit > hit > AP. Never trade almost any amount of +crit for almost any amount of +hit, and all things being equal take the one with more attack power.

People say things like "You should aim for 15% hit." or "Focus on getting 30% crit with 1600 AP, then get your +hit" or whatever-the-hell. Why? There isn't a curve, there aren't diminishing returns. If +crit is better than +hit, why would you ever opt for +hit if given the choice?

Moral of the story: Bladefists Breadth > Romulo's Poison Vial

Ya?

Machinator · 05/30/07, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by Salted

Why? There isn't a curve, there aren't diminishing returns. If +crit is better than +hit, why would you ever opt for +hit if given the choice?

Isnt there though? As a posted above I asked that same question, but the answers are less clear. The worth of different stats changes based on what you already have.

LodeRunner · 05/31/07, 11:45 AM

So what's the general opinion on one handed enchants these days? If Crusader wasn't 60% of what it used to be I wouldn't even be asking, but it seems to me there's a choice of either Crusader, Potency, or Mongoose. I just got my Wicked Edge upgraded but it needs an enchant. My only beef with Mongoose is the total lack of attack power. If I was looking at enchanting a tank weapon there'd be no question, but for dps? I've heard of people doing Mongoose MH and Potency OH. Or, do people feel 2x mongoose is the way to go? Everyone is pushing me towards Mongoose. What are people's experiences these days with 1handed enchants?

Elic · 05/31/07, 11:58 AM

http://files.filefront.com/Warrior_0.../fileinfo.html
1.1.1

Flurry, Glancing changes.
DEP changed to SEP (Str equiv points). Normalized from strength so the numbers should be quite a bit more stable as stats improve.

Gear did not get updated to 2.1, I don't have that much free time.

I've been thinking about moving to a page where you input raw stats + talents with check boxes for special trinkets and set bonuses. What are your guys' thoughts?

Hoonboof · 05/31/07, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by LodeRunner

So what's the general opinion on one handed enchants these days? If Crusader wasn't 60% of what it used to be I wouldn't even be asking, but it seems to me there's a choice of either Crusader, Potency, or Mongoose. I just got my Wicked Edge upgraded but it needs an enchant. My only beef with Mongoose is the total lack of attack power. If I was looking at enchanting a tank weapon there'd be no question, but for dps? I've heard of people doing Mongoose MH and Potency OH. Or, do people feel 2x mongoose is the way to go? Everyone is pushing me towards Mongoose. What are people's experiences these days with 1handed enchants?

I'd be inclined to go with Mongoose mainhand, Potency offhand. I'm a cheap (read: poor) motherfucker though and Mongoose is fucking expensive so double potency is my staple until I know I'm not getting a mainhand upgrade for a good while. You shouldn't even be considering crusader at this point.

ps if you're LodeRunner from SA I can remember you harping on about being all about the big two handers oh how the mighty have fallen >: (

Calgar · 05/31/07, 12:29 PM

I think that would be easier to work with.

Apate · 05/31/07, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by Elic

http://files.filefront.com/Warrior_0.../fileinfo.html
1.1.1

Flurry, Glancing changes.
DEP changed to SEP (Str equiv points). Normalized from strength so the numbers should be quite a bit more stable as stats improve.

Gear did not get updated to 2.1, I don't have that much free time.

I've been thinking about moving to a page where you input raw stats + talents with check boxes for special trinkets and set bonuses. What are your guys' thoughts?

Thanks as always (especially for OO compatibility!)

I definitely would prefer raw stat input.

Regarding weapon enchants, I think there are unfortunately 3-4 threads about it. to some extent it depends on the gear you have. Personally, I would go for Mongoose/Potency or Potency/Potency (likely the former).

LodeRunner · 05/31/07, 1:34 PM

Originally Posted by Hoonboof

ps if you're LodeRunner from SA I can remember you harping on about being all about the big two handers oh how the mighty have fallen >: (

Yup. Times change. There's only so much multiple Arms warriors can bring to a raid. Don't worry, though; I've already picked up 1/5 Vortices for my Bloodmoon.

Exodusdragon · 05/31/07, 6:01 PM

I was thinking of going fury on my warrior but I don't know much about it. I've asked people on my server and I get different answers. My question is how much Hit%/Crit%/AP do you need to be reliable dps in raids? Also for weapons do I want to use a slow offhand or a fast offhand?

Apate · 05/31/07, 6:06 PM

Originally Posted by Exodusdragon

I was thinking of going fury on my warrior but I don't know much about it. I've asked people on my server and I get different answers. My question is how much Hit%/Crit%/AP do you need to be reliable dps in raids? Also for weapons do I want to use a slow offhand or a fast offhand?

Have you tried using the spreadsheet?

Salted · 06/01/07, 12:08 AM

Originally Posted by Machinator

Isnt there though? As a posted above I asked that same question, but the answers are less clear. The worth of different stats changes based on what you already have.

Why does it change based on what you already have? Like I said, there are no diminishing returns.

hob · 06/01/07, 12:18 AM

Originally Posted by Salted

Why does it change based on what you already have? Like I said, there are no diminishing returns.

What stat you need depends on what stats you have. If you don't have enough hit to not miss with specials you need hit, if you have a ton of crit but no ap or hit to back it, then you start to focus on ap/hit. It's the same for all stats. If you have a ton of ap but little to no hit/crit you will just be missing or not criting. Most people will favor one stat of over another but you still need to have the others.

dr_AllCOM3 · 06/01/07, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by Elic

http://files.filefront.com/Warrior_0.../fileinfo.html
1.1.1

Flurry, Glancing changes.
DEP changed to SEP (Str equiv points). Normalized from strength so the numbers should be quite a bit more stable as stats improve.

Gear did not get updated to 2.1, I don't have that much free time.

I've been thinking about moving to a page where you input raw stats + talents with check boxes for special trinkets and set bonuses. What are your guys' thoughts?

Thanks!
Two things:
- Buffed DPS, Haste still lacks the Item Bonus +'Gear _ Buffs'!Q116
- AP Flask is 120 AP now

Wixi · 06/01/07, 12:37 PM

Can someone help me out with SEP? Or at least clarify what it is?

I have just run "update SEP" and i have;

Agi -4.78
str: 1
AP: -2.77
Hit: -4.36
Crit: -6.52

This has me boggled, and i can't find any website that explains SEP after a quick google.

LordVoid · 06/01/07, 2:35 PM

Originally Posted by Machinator

None of the recent versions have worked with my Open Office right away. The posted 'conversion' notes seem to work on the 1.1.0, but you don't need to edit the shoulder part.

I am curious how to model flurry accurately. Its hard to follow where the formulas in the spreadsheet go. I would think that especially with different weapon speeds it would be important which weapon crit.
I made some custom weapons with the same dps but different speeds and compared different combinations. The results were not what I would expect logically. For example, for any MH speed, and a 1.5 speed OH: Changing to a 2.0 speed OH would decrease dps, but changing to a 2.5 would be about the same. What would cause this?

What assistance do you need in modeling Flurry? The equation or the concept or both?

Suesse · 06/01/07, 7:26 PM

Is the spreadsheet able to model prot warrior dps? I see devastate *the ability* above the cycles list, but none of the cycles include devastate. Should I make a new cycle which is just devastate spam (1.5 second long, one use of devastate) or am I misunderstanding the spreadsheet?

Machinator · 06/01/07, 7:58 PM

I get the concepts and the basic equations, its when you add in other aspects like instants Im not sure I have it right. Most of the issues seem to be from weapon speeds and the recursiveness. Weapon speed especially seem to have more effect in sheets I make than others, like the main one in this thread gets results that I dont think make any sense.

Celandro · 06/01/07, 8:25 PM

Stopped by to see where this thread was going...

Originally Posted by ikillyouheal

This goes against everything I've self-learned from a 17/42/2 build. Offhand eating flurry charges isnt that much of an issue for me atleast, Since the MH usually eats them with WF proc.

I used the t2 BS sword, Blazeguard, for a while, but just settled for a Gladiator's Shiv instead, makes it alot easier to really get that extra edge of your cycles when you Rampage when it has 0.5 duration left.

Optimal speed assuming 100% flurry uptime and 0% haste is 1.5 * 1.25 = 1.875 = 1.8 speed MH and OH so that you get 1 hit in between each global cool down. Any slower and you are not maxmizing the marvelous 10 rage execute efficiency (ASSUMING YOU GENERATE 6.66 RAGE PER SECOND!!!). This was discussed extensively far far earlier in this thread. You simply can not execute every 1.5s unless your swing speed is less than every 1.5s. This used to be modeled in Deathwings spreadsheet, I havent checked the new one.

B.Lan · 06/02/07, 8:52 AM

Originally Posted by Elic

Gear did not get updated to 2.1, I don't have that much free time.

I did some data work... Maybe i forgot some items.
Anyway, could someone please add/check the proc for "Romulo's Poison Vial" and "Bloodlust Brooch".

http://files.filefront.com/Warrior_0.../fileinfo.html

Items changed / added:
- Warbringer Set (Off and Def)
- Gladiator's Set
- Mithrill Chain of Heroism
- Shoulderpads of the Merciless
- Girdle of the Endless Pit (Giev Pala Items :P)
- Ironstriders of Urgency
- Scaled Greaves of the Marksman (Oh yes :P)
- Bladespire Warbands
- Gauntlets of Martial Perfection
- Drape of the Dark Reavers
- Mithrill Band of the Unscarred
- Ring of a Thousand Marks
- Garona's Signet Ring
- Violet Signet of the Master Assassin
- Wolfslayer Sniper Rifle
- Sun Fury Bow of the Phoenix
- Barrel-Blade Longrifle
- all Gladiator's weapons
- King's Defender
- Decapitator
- Fool's Bane
- Spiteblade
- Emerald Ripper
- Blade of the Unrequited
- Big Bad Wolf's Paw
- Malchazeen
- Riftmaker
- Retainer's Blade
- Feltooth Eviscerator
- Vileblade of the Betrayer
- The Night Blade
- Guile of Khoraazi
- Planar Edge (T1, T2, T3)
- Fireguard (T1, T2, T3)