DPS Warrior Spreadsheet - Page 54

LordVoid · 11/23/06, 9:16 AM

Update this for the new rage gen formula?

Deathwing · 11/23/06, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by LordVoid

Update this for the new rage gen formula?

I'm actually working on this right now. I'm making all the other changes as well, windfury, talents, rating system, etc. While, I'm posting, I need to ask a few questions. Can any explain weapon skill and glancing blows clearly? IIRC, weapon skill doesn't do anything except versus higher level opponents. Then, it offers +.1% crit for each weapon skill above the enemy's? And glancing blows is constant damage reduction at 24%, what about the rate per level difference?

Grayson Carlyle · 11/23/06, 5:58 PM

Might also want to wait for a concensus form the 2-roll thread before you release the next major revision, since that's going to have a rather large impact.

pf · 11/23/06, 6:09 PM

Originally Posted by Deathwing

Originally Posted by LordVoid

Update this for the new rage gen formula?

I'm actually working on this right now. I'm making all the other changes as well, windfury, talents, rating system, etc. While, I'm posting, I need to ask a few questions. Can any explain weapon skill and glancing blows clearly? IIRC, weapon skill doesn't do anything except versus higher level opponents. Then, it offers +.1% crit for each weapon skill above the enemy's? And glancing blows is constant damage reduction at 24%, what about the rate per level difference?

I'm not sure anyone knows exactly how +skill is going to work vs higher level mobs. The wording leaves room for quite a few different interpretations. I am currently assuming +1 skill is worth +.08 hit (-miss -dodge) and +.14 crit (.04+.1). But this is just a guess.

Originally Posted by Grayson Carlyle

Might also want to wait for a concensus form the 2-roll thread before you release the next major revision, since that's going to have a rather large impact.

Imo, there is enough evidence to fully support a 2-roll system for yellow attacks. However, the impact will not be near as big as you are assuming. Most warriors only have to worry about yellow attacks being dodged, and thus a ~1.5% crit difference on yellow damage only.

Grayson Carlyle · 11/23/06, 8:38 PM

I should've qualified that with "to the equations".

Cormag · 11/30/06, 5:25 PM

Well, I have a quick question, you have two weapons, the exact same dps and stats, one is 2.7 speed, and the other is 1.7. What combination would do the most damage? Two of the 2.7, two of the 1.7, 2.7 MH and 1.7 OH, or the 1.7MH and 2.7 OH. I heard two weapons of the same speed get four flurry charges, so I'd say that two 2.7s would be the most damage, any word on you guys from this?

Muggins · 11/30/06, 5:30 PM

Originally Posted by Deathwing

Can any explain weapon skill and glancing blows clearly? IIRC, weapon skill doesn't do anything except versus higher level opponents. Then, it offers +.1% crit for each weapon skill above the enemy's? And glancing blows is constant damage reduction at 24%, what about the rate per level difference?

Didn't the blue post say that +1 weaponskill was actually +0.1% crit rating. Or did they finally clear up the wording and i missed it?

andyy · 12/03/06, 6:53 AM

ok this might be a very stupid question as I don't want to read all about Windfury with DW/Flurry in
the other thread:

How can it be that slow MH weapons get (so much) more dps with Windfury up than fast MH weapons?
Of course, on slow MH weapons WF procs hit a lot harder, but on the other hand, the windfury proc is chance to hit based, so it should proc
a lot more often on fast weapons, right?
I would say, if you don't take flurry into account, wf should give your mh weapon a 20% dps increase.

What am I missing?

TL-Seria · 12/03/06, 7:11 AM

Originally Posted by Muggins

Originally Posted by Deathwing

Can any explain weapon skill and glancing blows clearly? IIRC, weapon skill doesn't do anything except versus higher level opponents. Then, it offers +.1% crit for each weapon skill above the enemy's? And glancing blows is constant damage reduction at 24%, what about the rate per level difference?

Didn't the blue post say that +1 weaponskill was actually +0.1% crit rating. Or did they finally clear up the wording and i missed it?

as itemized +weapon skill already is a rating, a final skillpoint is probably a % value that doesn't decrease over levels.

zepi · 12/03/06, 8:45 AM

Originally Posted by andyy

ok this might be a very stupid question as I don't want to read all about Windfury with DW/Flurry in
the other thread:

How can it be that slow MH weapons get (so much) more dps with Windfury up than fast MH weapons?
Of course, on slow MH weapons WF procs hit a lot harder, but on the other hand, the windfury proc is chance to hit based, so it should proc
a lot more often on fast weapons, right?
I would say, if you don't take flurry into account, wf should give your mh weapon a 20% dps increase.

What am I missing?

Fast OH attacks. If you have 1.3 speed CHT in OH and it procs WF, you'll get a superhit with your 2.9 speed GM Sword for over 2 times the damage. If you have 1.3 daggers in both hands, these OH procced WF:s are just 1.3speed MH attacks that do much less damage.

K-Muflage · 12/03/06, 9:40 AM

Instants also proc windfury so those benefit slow weapons more and the fact that windfury procs aren't normalized.

Ubok · 12/03/06, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by zepi

Fast OH attacks. If you have 1.3 speed CHT in OH and it procs WF, you'll get a superhit with your 2.9 speed GM Sword for over 2 times the damage. If you have 1.3 daggers in both hands, these OH procced WF:s are just 1.3speed MH attacks that do much less damage.

I´m gonna have to chime in here and say i don´t think that OH attacks can proc WF.

Windfury Totem (Rank 3)
250 Mana
Instant cast
Summons a Windfury Totem with 5 health at the feet of the caster. The totem enchants all party members main-hand weapons with wind, if they are within 20 yards. Each hit has a 20% chance of granting the attacker 1 extra attack with 315 extra attack power. Lasts 1.50 min.

Muggins · 12/03/06, 12:30 PM

While the buff does only apply itself to the mainhand the mechanics of WF totem allow the offhand to cause a WF proc with the mainhand weapon. Or it used to, with the advent of the shaman being able to buff both weapons seperately i'm not certain if the mechanics of the WF totem have changed.

Boevis · 12/03/06, 7:26 PM

There are many reasons a slow MH is better than a Fast MH.
1. Whirlwind. Would you rather your instant attack be done with average damage 172+AP or 107+AP? I think you'll want the +65 damage.
2. Procs. Most procs are calculated by their Procs Per Minute with a % chance based on the base weapon speed. A Slower weapon has a higher % Chance than a faster weapon. Since you're going to be getting the same number of instants, using a Slow MH increases the number of procs you're going to get overall.
3. HoJ/Sword Spec. Using a Fast OH and Slow MH, any extra attacks procced by both MH and OH yield a MH swing currently. Having a fast OH benefits having a slow MH more than a fast MH. See also Procs.
4. Execute Spam. With Flurry, a 1.9 speed weapon becomes 1.46 speed, just under global cooldown length, any faster and you'll be wasting MH rage fairly often by getting 2 attacks inbetween executes, too much slower and you have to wait too long between executes.
5. Windfury. See Procs.

andyy · 12/03/06, 11:11 PM

Originally Posted by Boevis

There are many reasons a slow MH is better than a Fast MH.
1. Whirlwind. Would you rather your instant attack be done with average damage 172+AP or 107+AP? I think you'll want the +65 damage.
2. Procs. Most procs are calculated by their Procs Per Minute with a % chance based on the base weapon speed. A Slower weapon has a higher % Chance than a faster weapon. Since you're going to be getting the same number of instants, using a Slow MH increases the number of procs you're going to get overall.
3. HoJ/Sword Spec. Using a Fast OH and Slow MH, any extra attacks procced by both MH and OH yield a MH swing currently. Having a fast OH benefits having a slow MH more than a fast MH. See also Procs.
4. Execute Spam. With Flurry, a 1.9 speed weapon becomes 1.46 speed, just under global cooldown length, any faster and you'll be wasting MH rage fairly often by getting 2 attacks inbetween executes, too much slower and you have to wait too long between executes.
5. Windfury. See Procs.

Of course I agree with point 1 and 4, and btw Overpower is a MH damage based skill, too.
My original question was about the Windfury proc though, so I wonder whether it is true that
a) Offhand hits proc a MH windfury attack
b) Windfury proc chance depends on the weapon speed, as in you get the same amount of procs with a fast or slow MH.
(Even though it says "Each hit has a 20% chance of granting the attacker 1 extra attack")

If a) or b) (or both) are true, it is clear why a slow MH is so much better with a WF totem.