Technically, it does. But if you look at itemization (this is much more clearcut really for casters)

Even when I was in blue gear, I was at around 20ish percent crit.. Months later in epics, my crit has increased by 4-5 points. My attack power has more than doubled. Abyssal legplates of striking have nearly as much crit as Heigan's legs. Hence the scaling of crit/hit/skill seems to be higher, while attack/spell power seems to be designed for the more constant increase.

If you want Aedak and Shiro to stop by Im sure that could be arranged.


As far as trinkets with cooldowns are concerned, I've always argued they are by definition worth more than length/cooldown.

We can use Death Wish as an example of all cooldowns with its 30s length and 180s cooldown
Best case for DeathWish:
Fight of 180X + 30 length in seconds where X is an integer [0,1,2,3] etc.
Example 1:
30s total combat length
0-30 - DW on
DeathWish value = 1.2 * DPS

Example 2:
210s total combat length, last 30s is execute range when dps is assumed doubled
0-30 DW on
31-180 - DW off
180-210 DW on
DeathWish value = 1.2X * (30/210) + X * (150/210) + 1.2X * 2 * (30/210) = 1.2286X
No Deathwish value = 180/210X + 2 * 30/210 * X = 1.1429X
DeathWish Value = 1.2286/1.1429 = 1.075 * DPS

Naive Death Wish Calculation:
1.2 * 30/180 + 150/180= 1.033 * DPS

So Death Wish in the 210s length fight is worth more than double the naive interpretation. The naive interpretation assumes constant dps and fights of 180X in length. Neither of these are true. By timing your cooldowns properly, you can increase the effectiveness of ANY cooldown dramatically. If you happen to have a trinket with a 3min (fetish) or 6 min cooldown (flask) or 30 min cooldown (recklessness) the abilities stack and become even better.

Patchwork at ~6 min 30s happens to be perfect for deathwish maximization which helps explain warriors on top of dps charts. Thats 3 death wishes and 1 recklessness cooldown.

As far as the spreadsheet is concerned, it would be nice if you could specify fight length and then the spreadsheet would automatically time all your cooldowns (with an option to disable recklessness) to maximize your execute dps, using cooldowns multiple times if possible in the given time frame.

The following macro is your friend:
/cast Death Wish
/script UseInventoryItem(13)
/script UseInventoryItem(14)

Hit this button 3 times and you will cast deathwish and trigger both your trinkets.

Edit: The following macro should only have to be hit once
Edit2: This doesnt seem to work very well, i prefer the 1st one
Edit3: This does work but Diamond Flask (and some other trinketscauses a global cooldown so you may have to still hit the macro more than once.

/script u,s=UseInventoryItem,SpellStopCasting;u(13);s();u(14);s();
/cast Death Wish

My spreadsheet assume long fights(boss fights) because they are the best case to compare dps. I really don't care if rogues or mages beat us out on trash, because it's just that, trash. The quicker they get deader, the better. However, my spreadsheet is easily adaptable for what you're asking, so I'll put in. That will go in release .45, since I'm upping .44 right now.

I had assumed Aedak and Shiro already read these boards...certainly much better than wow boards.

Anyway, onto v0.44! Here's the general gist of the changes:

Fixed Windfury calcs, they were on the brief 1.12 nerf. Also removed HoJConnects from possible hits that proc WF. I know that HoJ hits CAN proc WF, but it's causing a circular reference in the spreadsheet
Fixed Deathbringer #REF error
Added manual cooldown field for all abilities without a prolonged cooldown. The new field is located to the right of the "RPS" column and is shaded green.
Added proc dps in for Thunderfury, estimated at 20% chance/hit
Put in more labels for calculations

More about the "Cooldown?" column. Basically, the user has to figure out on average, how often he's using an ability. So if you HS 4 times/minute, put 15 in the cooldown section. There's a handy "RPS, pre execute" field so you can see what's your limit. It's best to leave a little room so you can build up to a full bar execute by the 20% mark. Also, if you are doing the BT/WW/spamstring playstyle, your hamstring cooldown CANNOT go lower than 2.5, it's not possible to hit it any faster.

http://www.savefile.com/files/1475921

Please add the following trinkets:
None (no current way to specify a non-combat trinket)
Diamond Flask (75str 1min use, 6min cooldown)

[tangent]
No Diamond Flask isn't horrible.. average of 43AP on a 7 min patchwork fight and can multiply its effect with deathwish. Certainly comparable with rune of the guard captain. For reference Earthstrike is 59AP on a 6min20s fight timeable with 2 deathwishs. Its also excellent on trash if you swap trinkets around (can fetish + death wish mob 1 then diamond flask mob 2).
[/tangent]

Please change E25 to =MAX(1.5,FinalFlurryAverageSpeed) since you cant on average execute faster than you swing on average. This should help fix the 2h numbers and the slow 1h numbers.

Please change B45 to =1-(1-NetCrit/100)^(3+3*WhiteFlurryAverageSpeed*(0.8*(1/10+1/6+1/HamstringCD)+0.2*1/1.5) + IF(O24=O26,0.5,0)) since matched speed weapons get a boost to flurry up time. This may not be 100% correct since I haven't thought long enough about how instant attacks modify the 0.5 extra you get but it should be correct for a lower bound.

Think on how to handle the dual servo arm situation due to the difference between on equip (affects both hands) and proc (only affects one hand).

Thats all I can think of right now.

Regarding the Cooldown column, if you wish to say that you do not use a certain skill you just make the cooldown absurdly large, as you have done? I'm assuming thats the significance of having overpower's cooldown "9999999999".

With the forthcoming change to thunderfury being made offhandable I've been trying to see how that'd change my gear choices, found 3 bugs:
1) Q26 and 28 (offhand and 2h) are not referencing proc DPS from the weapon sheet
2) I'm consistently getting higher overall DPS using TF as a mainhand as opposed to MH'ing servo arm or some other slow weapon with TF offhand - even after fixing that TF's proc wasn't being taken into account for the offhand, not sure what would be causing this, but it seems wrong - also in this vein a twiddle feature that would allow you to switch MH and offhand (including enchant) without manually switching weapons would be kinda nice
3) aformentioned lack of servo arms proc being taken into account - tho I can see registering it as an equip effect would be very complicated, I have a feeling we'll be seeing more procs of a similar style in the future

finally 2 gear issues:
Sacrificial gauntlets (441 armor, 19 str, 1% crit/hit gloves) is missing
Also you have an entry for "naxx mace" by the stats, I'm guessing it's supposed to be the castigator
And the difference between HW weapons being used for all but the quickblade which is instead under GM is somewhat confusing

Another, somewhat bizzare side-request:
Could you include 1h weapon specialization as an option for the talent selection? Yes it's prot, but for the most part DPS'ing as prot means pretending to be DW fury, and 1h weapon spec is pretty nice in that regard

Overall awesome sheet, and the indexing of equipment really makes it a dream to use

Ok, just wanted to confirm thats how you used the column. Playing around with the cooldown column is pretty fun, actually. Do you have any plans to extend this to cover Mortal Strike specs as well, or is this a pure-fury spreadsheet?

Not sure how you want to handle the difference between Equip procs and Chance on Hit buffs.

You also may want to model mob armor as well in order to properly show the impact of the Bonereaver proc and the Badge of the Swarmguard effect. I'll try to come up with an appropriate formula.

I'm working with the Badge of the Swarmguard right now, but I don't have an exact proc-rate for it. Does anyone know what the rate is when you activate the trinket?

Anyways, from my rough math, assuming you get 1 stack of the buff every 4 seconds the trinket gives you +10% damage average over the 30s duration of the effect.

True, there are better, but it seems that it ought to be better as an offhand rather than a mainhand due to speed issues, but the math doesn't seem to be holding through for that (even after fixing it so that it was actually proccing in the offhand), and since I'm not an actual DPS warrior I have to make due for my DPS kit weaponwise, I was previously fairly convinced that the easiest grab I could get would be servo arm mainhand/TF offhand, but for some reason that's running lower DPS than just using TF mainhand, which I just don't quite understand - procwise all you lose out on is instants, the proc itself not being affected by the offhand penalty, so I'd think that a slower, higher DPS MH would beat out TF rather than relegating the same to the offhand and sticking with TF main, but it doesn't seem to be, and I'm trying to see why, in a perfect world I could just grab 64+ DPS weapons in both hands, but as is I'd rather those went to someone who's actually poking the boss in the rear every fight while I tank it, so I'm trying to plan around that.

Unrelatedly:
legplates of carnage and outridders legplates are miscatagorized as boots

The only attack where the speed of the weapon matters is WW. Bloodthirst, execute, and hamstring are unaffected by it. Other minor differences: slower weapons have a bit longer uptime, faster weapons generate a bit more rage from unbridled wrath. So, for DW fury, weapon speed doesn't make a big difference

You forget: faster weapons let you spam execute faster, faster weapons generate more consistant rage, faster weapons gain more from sharpening stones. slower weapons gain more from heroic strikes raising your hit rate and removing glancing blows

At high gear levels, faster is better all else considered and faster is always better for offhand unless the offhand is the exact same speed as the mainhand.

Btw can you make MS work? One thing this spreadsheet should be usefull is to test spec. I had to spec back to tanking a bit so I went to MS and it seem the sheet is not usable that way even though the talents are there?

It's basically the same thing, except you replace BT dmg with MS? The rest of the mods should work already, 2-h spec, no flurry, etc, by just setting the skills to 0 or 1?

Ok, this one got me confused. Care to elaborate?

HS rage cost goes (slightly) up with slower weapons. So #of HSes with slower weapons is not as high as with faster weapons (the ratio is nontrivial to compute). Sure each HS with slower weapons gets a bigger nonglance/lessmiss Bonus than a HS with a faster weapon and due to the lower granularity of damage dealing with slower weapons ("bigger chunks of damage") less total damage is affected by glancing/miss malus. But on the other hand the flat HS Bonus does profit faster weapons more.

Ary you sure that the one effect ("bigger chunks of damage") does outweigh the other (less flat bonus)?

Curious.

ADDENDUM:
Did a few quick spreadsheets, covering attacks from behind/front with and without +7Weapon Skill on a Lvl 63 Mob.
The cost of a HS i defined as
"regular AutoAttack DMG"(critting, glancing and nonconnecting included)/30 + 12
i.e. rage lost from a white attack + talented HS cost.

The DPR (damage per rage) ratio i defined as
[ "Avg HS Damage"(nonglancing, lessnonconnecting bonus included) + 157 - "avg Autoswing Damage" ]/HSCost
i.e the ratio of Bonus damage gained by HS devided by HScost.

I did not take into account flurry and damage increasing effects like death wish (i#m pretty confident they *almost* cancel out).

JFYI these were the results:
HSCost went up substantially with weapon speed. Slower weapons had a *lower* DPR rating than faster weapons. Indicating that HS is *better* with faster than slower weapons. At 1.4 Speed and faster the DPR rating exceeded the "flat DPR rating of HS"(i.e. flatBonus/flatCost=157/12= 13.1).

Hope that does make sense.

regards

No Im not sure. This was what I had always read and believed with bad gear (20% crit +6hit no +skill deathbringers MH) and before the new heroic strike (aka a year ago). Does the +19hit and no glancing blows at this level of gear outweigh the static bonus?

X = average white damage hit excluding crits/glancing

Using new heroic
5.6% dodge 5.6% parry, 0%miss (ignore block)
(X + 157) * (1-.056 - .056 - .2) + 2.2 * (X+157) * .2 = .688X + 108.02 + .44X + 69.08 = 1.128X +177.1
Using white damage
5.6% dodge, 5.6% parry, 40% glancing 18.6% miss 20% crit
X * .7 * .4 + X * (1-.056 - .056 -.4 - .186 -.2) + .2 * 2X = .28X + .102X + .4X = .782X

With 0% dmg reduction from AC:
Heroic strike dmg =1.128X +177.1 - .782X = 0.346X + 177.1
Heroic strike rage cost = .782X/30 + 12 = 0.0261X + Z

I used excel for these starting at 100 dmg going up to 800
With Z = 15 (no talents), Damage per rage was increasing
With Z = 14, Damage per rage was increasing slightly
With Z = 13, Damage per rage was decreasing slightly
With Z = 12, Damage per rage was decreasting more

With 20% dmg reduction from AC
Heroic strike dmg = (0.346X + 177.1) * .8
Heroic strike rage cost = 0.0261X * .8 + Z
With Z = 12-15, Damage per rage was increasing

I am working on a spreadsheet to show this and let you put in your own numbers

I finished up the excel sheet for heroic strike calcs.
I don't know if this matches the numbers that will come out of the main dps sheet but it should

http://www.rcsolid.com/poseidonguild/HeroicStrike.xls

If you put in low gear levels, slower weapons get better damage per rage than faster. At high gear levels the faster weapons beat it out.

Edit. Version 0.4 uploaded

Hrm, ok, 'cause in an earlier version of the sheet I was surprised to find that any combination of weapons that included the quickblade (1.8 speed) was out DPS'd by dual weilding the normal HWL blade (2.9), my DPS gear has changed a little since then, but not that much, so I'm still somewhat confused why a fast MH/slow offhand would beat out slow MH/fast OH when the slower weapon was higher base DPS, and a large portion of the fast weapons DPS came from procs that wouldn't be affected by the off-hand penalty (beyond not procc'ing on instants).

Ahh ok. I did not check out which effect gear levels would have.
The assumptions i made were: 2000AP, 29% Crit, 15%Hit (Raidbuffed Stats), talented HS!

I calculated 4 cases of attacking a Lvl 63 Mob:
From front 0 WpnSkill, From front +7WpnSkill, From behind 0 WpnSkill, From behind +7 WpnSkill

My goal was to check how HScost and DPR of HS scaled with weapon speed.
At these levels of gear HSCost went up (in a linear fashion) and DPR went down (logarithmically) with slower weapons.

So i guess, this is covered by your findings too.

regards

Thanks, glad you like the spreadsheet.

I'm not sure what exactly you're asking in that second paragraph. Do you need a few more items added to the spreadsheet?

As far as I know, Thunderfury is modeled correctly. I put it in at 20%/hit, after that it's pretty easy. MSA isn't modeled accurately. I don't think anyone has a definite PPM, at least I haven't seen it yet. Anyone know this? For the time being, I'm going to estimate it at 3.5 PPM. Besides that, wielding two servo arms is doable on my spreadsheet.

That's partly why I implemented the cooldowns, so users could more accurately represent their playstyle(read: lag condition). If you know how to hack up lua code, you could alter FastCast to work on instant cast abilities.

I think the formula for Flurry uptime while dual wielding is wrong.

It is using 1-(1-CritRate)^(3+NumberOfInstantsInLastThreeAttacks)

NumberOfInstantsInLastThreeAttacks is correct for 2 hander as 3*WeaponSpeed*NumberOfInstantsPerSecond

But for dual wield its using 'AverageWeaponSpeed' which is not a meaningful number,
it needs to use the time it takes to do an attack on average
this is 1 divided by the attacks per second of main hand plus the attacks per second of off hand
i.e.
1/(1/MHSpeed + 1/OHSpeed)

so for example the estimated Main Hand Speed (including flurry guess) is 1
and Off Hand is 3 , we do 1.33 attacks per second, weapon speed is
1/(1/1 + 1/3) = 0.75

Also the WhiteHitFlurryPercentage that is used to estimate these weapon speeds is too low,
it assumes no instant attacks, it would be more accurate if it assumed one instant for dual wield
and 3 instants for 2 handers.
1-(1-CritRate)^(IF(2hand),6,4)

The reduced fluury uptime will make 2 hander DPS significantly closer to dual wield,
and increase the importance of crit rate.

Unless I misunderstand you, please read the notes in the spreadsheet, some of this is explained there.

I don't get your assertion about 'AverageWeaponSpeed'. The way you get weapon speed is the same as mine. 2/((1+3)/2) = 1.333 attacks per second.

That's the whole point of WhiteFlurryPercentage. Calculating overall flurry uptime is hopelessly cyclical, so I had to cut it off at a certain point. So I do flurry time just from white, and then use that speed for flurry time for white+yellow.

Thanks for the reply Deathwing.

In the second paragraph I was talking about an enhancement that is available on a rogue spreadsheet I've seen where you can enter in your current gear, your dream/upgrade gear and see what the DPS increase per item as well as total dps increase is. Thought this might be a nice enhancement if you can fit it in.

If TF is modeled correctly its quite scary that it beats Gresil ruin of dawn as a fury main hand. Similarly it seems that MSA is not as good as people claim it is.

I also thought about using Fast cast to help with the lag of warrior instants but I have no experiance with modifying lua's. If anyone has done modded fast cast to work with warriors or knows something simliar and could link it that would be great.

I don't think it is possible to do, as the mod doesn't work that way. Afaik its only applyable to abilties/spells with cast times.

Really eager to hear about it, if it can be done though :)

Great spreadsheet.
About the +10 skill cap.

Flameguards and only orc racial with 2 DBs.
495dps

Edgemasters and racial capped at +10 skill
499dps

Edgemaster and orc racial which I use now +12 skill
506dps

Is +skill capped at 10? I had to manually type in +12 skill how badly can this have messed up your calculation since I get 7 more dps from 2 skill points alone^^

And the skeram neck was not on the list, typing in manual values for ap sta etc does not change the calculation?