Being an instant, Hamstring is not going to screw with your swing timer or rage generation. Since Heroic Strike is "on next attack" it not only costs rage to activate, but also has the penalty of not giving rage for that attack.
Can't say I've tested it myself, but conventional wisdom is that the threat is divided equally amongst affected targets. If you Battle Shout and there is 1 mob in combat, you generate 60 threat on it. If there are 2 mobs, you generate 30 threat on each mob. Makes sense that it would be the same with Cleave. Hitting one mob with Cleave would give you 130 threat on it.
I'd like to get more clarification on this, has no one tested it? If not I will be testing it this weekend hopefully.
I understand the idea of threat divided equally among targets for things like shouts and heals, but for damage that would not make sense.
That would mean that if I cleaved and one cleave hit for 100 and the other crit for 200, my threat would be 150 on both (disregarding modifiers and innate)
Hourglass of the Unraveller and Thundering Skyfire Diamond
On the spreadsheet, it does not appear as if the Hourglass of the Unraveller is coded with any consideration of hidden cooldowns (it does not exceed 1 PPM in my limited records), which yields a significantly skewed value on critical strike rating. On my sheet, I added a trinket in new column that had 50 attack power and 32 critical rating. Would this be a more accurate representation of the item?
Edit: I believe this also greatly affected the value of having a faster off-hand weapon for me.
The Thundering Skyfire Diamond is not included. Is it fair to add it as a static 24 haste rating?
I was curious about this statement. I'm still stuck using Cloak of the Inciter, and I'm running at 267 hit rating right now. At this point in the game, with my build (17/44) would it be better for me to drop Inciter, lose the 1% hit and 150 HP for the small increase in crit and the extra ~40 AP? My unbuffed stats in Berserker are 1857 AP, 28.24% crit, and 10.2k HP. The only reason I'm asking is because I will have to buy most of the mats for Vengeance Wrap, and they are rather costly.
I've always been a fan of stacking lots of +hit, and up until last week I was running with 325 hit for raid DPS. Anyone know off hand about how much +hit can be traded for AP and still equal roughly the same DPS?
Assuming equal DPS and speeds (this is purely hypothetical), are there any reasons why DW Fury Warriors using daggers would do less damage than if the said Warrior were to use swords, maces, or axes instead? I've heard that using daggers is bad because of "normalization" but I'm not quite sure I understand what that means. Does that only have to do with the speed of the weapons? Or is there something innate in daggers that make them inherently worse?
Daggers only get 1.7 x AP/14 added to instant attacks. 1h non dagger weapons get 2.4 x AP/14. 2h are 3.3 x AP/14. For DW Fury, this mostly matters with WW (which is a pretty small part of our overall damage) and the very rare Overpower. I'm not exactly sure if the rage forumla cares about the one handed type of weapon you use either. It mattered a lot more before the recent Windfury totem change.
That's pretty close to what I had figured, but it just leads me to another question.
At what % or at what hit rating would be considered optimal for raid DPS? (Aiming for a ballpark figure here). As our guild continues to progress, I am going to be faced with making gear-swapping choices, such as trading hit for armor penetration or passive haste rating, etc. I guess I am looking for some magical number that most agree on as being the point to aim for, then start building up other stats around it.
I've lost about 60 hit rating over the last week due to swapping gear and trinkets (ex. Romulo's Poison Vial -> Dragonspine Trophy) and I'm already starting to feel the pains of losing that hit.
What are most of you aiming for, as far as hit rating goes?
Haste and Armor Pen are amazing. More of either is never a bad thing, especially haste, and especially with a DST. Looking at your armor I cant help but notice how low your crit is.
Originally Posted by Apate
Zyla, International Man of a Certain Standard.
Originally Posted by Wraithlin
What have you brought to this discussion? The usual vacuous and contentless tripe that you contribute to these forums - no more and no less.
That's pretty close to what I had figured, but it just leads me to another question.
At what % or at what hit rating would be considered optimal for raid DPS? (Aiming for a ballpark figure here). As our guild continues to progress, I am going to be faced with making gear-swapping choices, such as trading hit for armor penetration or passive haste rating, etc. I guess I am looking for some magical number that most agree on as being the point to aim for, then start building up other stats around it.
I've lost about 60 hit rating over the last week due to swapping gear and trinkets (ex. Romulo's Poison Vial -> Dragonspine Trophy) and I'm already starting to feel the pains of losing that hit.
What are most of you aiming for, as far as hit rating goes?
I really think hit is overrated, according to my calculations 1 hit rating gives almost as much a dps increase as 1 ap. I would stack crit till I can get my hands on armor pen and haste. Crit scales really well with buffed ap. When you start hitting almost 3000ap with raid buffs, which is pretty easy, 1 crit rating will give you more dps than 1 str.
As far as how much hit to aim for, I think 200 should be good enough. I'm tempted to see how low I can go though.
I really think hit is overrated, according to my calculations 1 hit rating gives almost as much a dps increase as 1 ap. I would stack crit till I can get my hands on armor pen and haste. Crit scales really well with buffed ap. When you start hitting almost 3000ap with raid buffs, which is pretty easy, 1 crit rating will give you more dps than 1 str.
As far as how much hit to aim for, I think 200 should be good enough. I'm tempted to see how low I can go though.
Well, I'm at 176 hit and can still manage 950+ Dps with my lousy gear.
Originally Posted by Apate
Zyla, International Man of a Certain Standard.
Originally Posted by Wraithlin
What have you brought to this discussion? The usual vacuous and contentless tripe that you contribute to these forums - no more and no less.
Haste and Armor Pen are amazing. More of either is never a bad thing, especially haste, and especially with a DST. Looking at your armor I cant help but notice how low your crit is.
Yeah, I tend to run with a Feral Druid, Elixir of Major Agility and Sharpening Stones, so I usually sit around 37% crit or so. I would like to improve my crit rating quite a bit as I pick up more gear, but it's just the fear of dropping all that +hit that makes me leary. I won't worry about it all that much from now on though and just start learning to accept that I will be missing a bit more as my gear gets upgraded.
Switched to Fury about 4 weeks ago (was Fury before BC, prot during BC-early raiding). I feel I've got a decent set of gear for our point in raiding: 191 hit, 1600ap, 27 crit. Goes up a boatload with raid buffs such that I regularly see 2300ap, 32 crit in the raiding environment with bursts as high as 3200ap and 25-37 crit depending on stones and pots.
When I first started, I would really only hit the threat ceiling if I pushed the heroic strikes really hard. With recent upgrades especiall the Tier 3 mace, I'm finding that even with salvation, any heroic strikes are starting to put me in the danger zone in sustained DPS situations. Usually run with Feral, WF Totem, 1 rogue, 1 BM hunter
Do any of the Fury warriors here have any suggestions for playstyle and rotations that can help me manage my threat better? I've been considering just using BT and WW with no heroic strikes, swapping to a 2h and slamming with a full rage bar (have a Gorehowl), using just 1 hs per rotation regardless of rage surplus, but this is the first time I've really felt severely threat limited and the only way I'll be able to survive in raids is through threat management. Sitting with a full rage bar seems like such a waste but I don't know quite what to do with it. Is specc'ing for Imp Cleave and using it as a rage dump worth it anymore? Same thing with imp slam?
Switching to 2H and doing unspecced slamming sounds like a horrendous rage dump for minimal damage. You lose 3 seconds due to switching weapon also. Speccing into imp. Cleave gives you 84 more damage on each Cleave. I don't think it's worth the three points considering that Cleave is worse than HS in threat-sensitive encounters in the first place. If I'm threat-capped I usually tell the tank to dish out more threat. Most of the time it's the tank's fault.
That's interesting to read that it actually is giving 3% total damage on crits, while the wording on wowhead/thottbot would lead you to believe that it works like Impale, Ruin, etc.
I'm looking at the most recent version of the DPS spreadsheet I can find, It stops modeling arms talents at Mortal Strike. Is there a DPS spreadsheet out there that will take into account any build? I've poked around EJ quite a bit an all I find are versions of this fury spreadsheet.
I'm looking at the most recent version of the DPS spreadsheet I can find, It stops modeling arms talents at Mortal Strike. Is there a DPS spreadsheet out there that will take into account any build? I've poked around EJ quite a bit an all I find are versions of this fury spreadsheet.
I don't think that anyone has actually updated the warrior dps spreadsheet in some time. Last time i looked it didn't have any BT/Hyjal gear on it at all. I would love to see a new one if someone has one out there though :P
I've a question about damage mechanics, not particuliarly about this spread sheet ... but I thought this thread would fit the question the most.
Damage dealt can be loosely described as
Damage = (Weapondamage + AP Bonus * WeaponSpeed) * Hitmodifier
where
Weapondamage denotes the avg Weapondamage
AP Bonus is your current AP value as modified by Rampage, zerk stance talent, crusader proc, BoK, ...
Hitmodifier is a value depending on you crit/hit/armor value of the mob/avoidance of the mob/...
My question is about the WeaponSpeed part.
We all know this is normalized for instants to 1.7/2.4/3.3
But what about autoattacks, next swing abilities, slam?
In special context of haste mechanics.
Is it the actual weapon swing timer as hastied by mongoose, parry mechanic, flurry, passive or active haste rating?
Or the nominal swing timer as given by the weapon speed of a particuliar weapon?
e.g. take [Torch of the Damned]
This item has an innate haste rating of 50.
The nominal weapon speed is 3.8
The actual weapon speed of an autoattack in most cases would be 3.63 (unparried, unflurried).
Is the AP bonus affecting the damage at an 3.8 or 3.63 mulitplier?
This might come off as a nitpicking question, but that would severely affect my evaluation of haste, AP and crit rating.
EDIT: On a tangent, another question came up: PPM enchants like mongoose or Warrior talents like mace spec associate the proc chance with a given weapon speed. In the case of above weapon would that be 3.8 or 3.63? Given that 50 haste rating are innate to said mace.
Sorry if this is OT for this thread, but search has resulted in threads about windfury, flurry, DST and hunter mechanics. Browsing these threads was of no help either. I could have been blind though.
I've a question about damage mechanics, not particuliarly about this spread sheet ... but I thought this thread would fit the question the most.
Damage dealt can be loosely described as
Damage = (Weapondamage + AP Bonus * WeaponSpeed) * Hitmodifier
where
Weapondamage denotes the avg Weapondamage
AP Bonus is your current AP value as modified by Rampage, zerk stance talent, crusader proc, BoK, ...
Hitmodifier is a value depending on you crit/hit/armor value of the mob/avoidance of the mob/...
My question is about the WeaponSpeed part.
We all know this is normalized for instants to 1.7/2.4/3.3
But what about autoattacks, next swing abilities, slam?
In special context of haste mechanics.
Is it the actual weapon swing timer as hastied by mongoose, parry mechanic, flurry, passive or active haste rating?
Or the nominal swing timer as given by the weapon speed of a particuliar weapon?
e.g. take [Torch of the Damned]
This item has an innate haste rating of 50.
The nominal weapon speed is 3.8
The actual weapon speed of an autoattack in most cases would be 3.63 (unparried, unflurried).
Is the AP bonus affecting the damage at an 3.8 or 3.63 mulitplier?
This might come off as a nitpicking question, but that would severely affect my evaluation of haste, AP and crit rating.
EDIT: On a tangent, another question came up: PPM enchants like mongoose or Warrior talents like mace spec associate the proc chance with a given weapon speed. In the case of above weapon would that be 3.8 or 3.63? Given that 50 haste rating are innate to said mace.
Sorry if this is OT for this thread, but search has resulted in threads about windfury, flurry, DST and hunter mechanics. Browsing these threads was of no help either. I could have been blind though.
Heroic Strike, Cleave, Slam take the weaponspeed.
Mortal Strike, Whirlwind, Overpower take the normalized speed.
Haste rating of course doesn't decrease the damage multiplier for attackpower as it'd be useless otherwise; calculations use the base attack speed.
08/01/07, 5:02 PM
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