Virtue

Well , I am around 2k ap 190 hit 31 crit(zerk stance stats) unbuffed , and i can easily push 1.1k dps without using any heroic or anything.

I was able to push heroic whenever i can back in 60 lvl, as a horde player(no salv/tranq) , but its pretty weird to see that even pushing 1 heroic makes you jump on threat meters , so I basicly don't.

Answer to question, I basicly have imp ww (2 secs add around 50 dps i think), and when BT/WW is on cooldown for long, i overpower if i get the opportunity. One swing puts me upto 25-35 rage anyways when changing back to zerk stance , and +100 ap(2piece tier5) is an "ok" bonus in my case.

 

Daylanor

Where is the updated spreadsheet? The one in the OP is way outdated on account of current gear.

 

◊ Hotspur

Gear is very easy to add, and I suspect most people have added gear to their local copies. The question is the Windfury modeling.

 

Dralmoo

Anyone have a guess for SEP on melee haste raiting (post incoming nerf in particular) ?

 

dr_AllCOM3

Just 50% less. Haste items now are on par with the rest, before they were clearly better.

 

Hozz

I dont know. Maybe it was too good per item point, but I think cutting its effectiveness by half really eviscerates a lot of the BT items that have haste on them.

 

Opalira

I am a 17/44 DW Fury warrior currently using 10-16% haste gear and I am not very happy with this change.

Prior to this nerf I found Swiftsteel Bracers to be slightly better than Bracers of Eradication, and this was backed up by the spreadsheet. Similarly, I found the Belt of Seething Fury to be a solid upgrade from Red Belt of Battle, and once again this was supported by the spreadsheet. After changing the rating values in the spreadsheet Swiftsteel Bracers and Belt of Seething Fury are both worse than Bracers of Eradication and Red Belt of Battle, and I'm pretty sure my performance after this patch will reflect that as well.

Band of Devastation remains better than Mithril Band of the Unscarred according to the spreadsheet, but that’s no surprise considering the huge ilevel difference. I doubt it would be worth using if I had a Ring of 1k Marks. I am no longer interested in getting a second Band of Devastation and will probably be replacing the one I have as soon as possible. Pillager's Gauntlets are still better than t4 gloves or Gauntlets of Martial Perfection.

The Spreadsheet also indicates that +10 haste to gloves is still better than 15 strength or 15 Agility, but I’m not so sure.

I find this nerf very frustrating as Swiftsteel Bracers and Belt of Seething Fury were not very strong upgrades to begin with. These items have a huge part of their budget spent in unnecessary stamina. After this nerf they absolutely need to be reconsidered, adding some crit rating (please not agility), hit rating or sockets at the cost of some stamina would be ideal.

 

Hozz

I dont see how the spreadsheet can show 10 haste rating as better than 15 STR as Fury. Point for point, STR is our best stat.

Also, the gloves from Akama are better than Pillager's now, IMO.

 

NayNay

Since I can't use the spreadsheet here, could anyone tell me wich stat upgrade benefits me most?

In raid about 3600 ap, 35% crit (without feral) and 17.8% hit.

 

world

Just quietly, with that kind of level of stats, I don't think you'd be able to find too many upgrades in the game at the moment...

I'd have to say though, either crit rating or haste would be your best options.

But then again, sustaining 3600 ap in raids!? /boggle

 

Bsiddiq

battle shout, rampage, blessing of kings, blessing of might, SoE totem, str food, ap flask, unleashed rage and imp. berserker stance. there's a plethora of AP buffs =]

 

Anduryondon

Hey, i have a little Question here. The last time i raided as a dps slot was in naxx and except of a few Karazhan Items, i have nearly no PvE Items, but full season2 gear except the main/offhands. So basically my question for what i should go now if i start raiding again. My DW Weapons would be Decapicator from Kara and Season 2 offhand, but with most parts season 2 gear, my hit rating is way under 10%+. My guess would be 2h Spec, but as i stopped raiding for nearly an half year and after the wf nerf iam not sure if its still viable for pure dpsing.

 

Aurethios

I have to say, i recently started tweaking my gear so i could get some haste in (yes i know i'm still sitting with some blues and mostly kara gear), with ap and a high enough hit rating to merit it. Judging by how much haste is needed to equate to current values, I'm inclined to agree with you. I don't have that much haste to begin with (mongoose, drakefist proc, and abacus), so I can probably rework my stats with not much issues. I am sad to see however, as you have a lot of the gear i was really looking forward to, that i may just skip over them as, like you said, they are sometimes not major upgrades.

 

drickz

I would still go with DW, hit rating is over-rated.

 

Opalira

IMO, If you don't have much PVE gear you'd be able to contribute more to a 25 man raid as MS imp slam, with imp tclap, blood frenzy and imp demo shout.

 

Anduryondon

Well, my Question is just for a pure DPS build, since i dont know if there already exists a debuff 2h warrior. If not i would do that ofc, but if they already have one iam not sure if dw is still more dps with that gear. Thx to the answers till now by the way

 

Mulokmar

3600 is a nice sustained AP for Fury, although right now I sustain about 2800 with Arms spec 40/21/0, spiking to 4800AP on WF/Trink procs. This is taken into account of the previously mentioned buffs from flask, shaman, druid ect. 2hd Spec is still viable for raiding, as I am always in the top 5 dps for raids.

 

Amyannirving

Greetings from a relatively low-geared warrior. I've always wanted to participate on the EJ forums because I've been a long time reader and there is so much good information and discussion here. So I finally registered for the forums and have come to you guys with a question regarding crusader vs. mongoose in terms of a mainhand fury enchant. Two days ago I finally completed my dragonstrike upon receiving vortex #5, and I am currently thinking about what enchant I should keep for it long-term. Before making my t3 mace I had a dragonmaw with a mongoose enchant on it, as mongoose was free from the guild bank and I had considered it to be pretty much a no-brainer at the time. But lately I've been thinking about the supposedly high emphasis on strength for DW fury gear compared to crit and hit, having geared and gemmed myself according to Shakti's DW fury gear list on the WoW warrior forums, which placed numerical values on various melee stats for warriors. Here's the link to the list for reference's sake:

WoW Forums -> DW Fury Gear List

and the values given to various stats were as follows

1 Crit Rating = 4.55 points
1 Agility = 3.125 points
1 Haste Rating = 6.465 points
1 Hit Rating = 3.91 points
1 Strength = 8 points
1 AP = 4 points

so anyway, this is where I began to think more objectively about the crusader enchant again as a mainhand solution. Given it's only a +60 strength proc at level 70 now, according to these values, it still has a 480 point value on it, and assuming these values are before improved berserker stance and BoK are considered, potentially the value can be stretched to around 570-580 or so when those two are added to the mix.

this is compared to the mongoose proc, which gives 120agility and 2% haste. Using these values, we get a value of 510.77 before BoK and 548.27 after BoK. Now, if these two numbers are pretty reflective of the real-life importance of the various stats for DW fury, I wonder if crusader might still be competitive with mongoose in a mainhand situation (relative uptime of the two enchants being one factor of course). Additionally, it seems to me that while crusader works more universally with white and yellow attacks, the haste portion of the mongoose proc might not boost yellow damage as much as white, assuming that decently-geared warriors will not be too rage starved to use their cooldowns and things in between of course. On the other hand, perhaps I'm just being a big idiot and underestimating the scaling of mongoose, but I guess that's why I'm making this post.

So what does everyone think? Does crusader have potential even at level 70? Thanks for the feedback.

 

Tiburon11

Crit Rating, Hit Rating, Agility, and Haste Rating are being underrated in those values. The actual spread is much closer to the SEP values Gruntle posted a page back:

1 str = 1
1 crit rating = 0.85
1 hit rating = 0.7
1 agi = 0.57

The passive strength on Potency will come out ahead of Crusader. You should really be comparing potency to Mongoose. Mongoose should come out ahead on your main hand, although it's debatable whether potency or mongoose are better on your offhand. Personally, I prefer potency.

Reclaimed is currently looking for 2 Mages, 2 Warlocks, and a Holy Priest who are Elitist Jerks just like the rest of our guild.

 

Amyannirving

hmm, interesting. did the importance of those stats change due to the WF nerf, or due to other factors as well?

also, do my overall stats warrant a need to re-gem certain things in light of this new data, or should I continue to stack str as my #1 priority?

 

Tiburon11

I'd get rid of the hit rating gem, otherwise your gems look decent. Since your not taking the set bonus on your legs, three 8 strength gems would be better there as well (although it would only be a minor difference).

The SEP values have always been similar to that, although strength did get a boost when we got the Imp. Bezerker Stance talent.

Edit: Get atleast potency on your main hand, although I'd recommend mongoose since Dragonstrike will likely not be replaced for a long time.

Reclaimed is currently looking for 2 Mages, 2 Warlocks, and a Holy Priest who are Elitist Jerks just like the rest of our guild.

 

shadowscion

At the time I did the math, crit was better at around low end (and higher) Black Temple and Mount Hyjal gear. I haven't done any testing after the WF or Haste nerf so it may not be the case anymore.

Going back to hit rating, I think hit just has an expensive stat conversion value for what it does after 8.6%. Before 8.6% hit, 1% hit is about the same dps increase as 1% crit outside of talents and procs. Procs favor hit whereas a lot of talents favor crit. After 8.6%, procs and white damage are the main benefits you gain from hit whereas crit affects said talents, white, and most yellow damage. 1% crit does an estimated twice the damage as 1% hit after 8.6% hit (excluding procs and talents). So 1% crit = 2% by estimation. But 1% crit <(less than) 2% in item stat budget. Crit wins from my theorycrafting.

Hope this helps.

 

Tiburon11

I used to get flamed to hell for posting this theory. Glad it's finally coming out. I'd like to see your math for crit though. I still think that 1 point of strength>1 point of crit at any average gear level.

Reclaimed is currently looking for 2 Mages, 2 Warlocks, and a Holy Priest who are Elitist Jerks just like the rest of our guild.

 

Graul

Where do these stat valuations come from? Are people determining just how much str increases overall DPS in comparison to crit from the results they see in the spreadsheets, or is there some complex theorycraft equation that just "proves" what a stat is worth? Many of the ratios in values that are posted are the same, but the main stat that seems to be argued about the most is str. Some have it almost double the value of crit with some pretty minimal crit rating and I don't know why. Is it just because of how it scales so good with DW?

The one quoted above looks closer to how the values should actually be, possibly with str just a bit higher maybe, but not a whole lot more. At least not until you have something crazy like 33% unbuffed crit as Fury.

 

shadowscion

Actually, Crit also got a boost from Imp. Berserker Stance because of the "Diminishing Returns" value of STR compared to Crit. It's always been where the more STR you have, the better Crit becomes. But it's not a direct 10% transfer though, so STR gains about 1-2% more value than Crit from the talent.