Those SEP values are from my modified spreadsheet (with changes for WF and WF damage corrected, as discussed earlier in the thread) using my gear which as I mentioned in my post is crappy (pre-kara). As I said in that post str will be the very best stat (in SEP value) for DW fury at whatever gear level due to the fact that ALL of the damage you do will scale with str (and BT in particular). The quite high value for crit in my gear is most probably due to that I have low crit (about 32% fully buffed with LOTP, really need to work on that, but things just won't drop for me :/).

Values reported with crit a lot higher might be wrong, but it's not incredible that crit will be the number one stat in a 2h fury build with MS instead of BT. Can't be bothered to check this in the spreadsheet (I don't know if the spreadsheet can do 2h with MS and Slam that well).

Anyone working on an upgraded version of the spreadsheet or should I try to check my version and release it? Would be helpful to get a list of what needs to be changed from the latest posted version here(http://elitistjerks.com/409275-post1395.html), my list of changes:
- Add gear
- base miss chance incorrect, should be 9/28% for 2h/DW (from the weapon skill discussion thread)
- Windfury incorrectly modeled, should only proc on hit or crit, not on swing (would be good if someone else could look at this, I think it is incorrect in the sheet).
- WF nerf, cannot proc on instants
- Maces bugged (I don't know how to solve this, in general I just make a new sword with the mace stats and use that instead)
- 2h calculations?

Anything else that should go in there?

Does anyone know what a static haste value on Dragonstrike should be? With the incoming haste nerf I'd like to find out of it is still better than Rising Tide and other weapons like that.

(used search fuction and couldn't find anything on the procrate of Dragonstrike)

Gruntle, First of all, great updated spreadsheet.

Now, I don't want to get flamed for asking this, but is there a similar spreadsheet out there for 2H MS wars? I know the damage output is much lower that fury, but I want to compare outputs with the gear I currently have.

I disagree about str being the best stat till BT/Hyjal. In my theorycrafting, I've found that str is a static dps increase, while crit's dps increase scales with how much AP you have. In the lower ends of AP roughly 2000-2600, 1 str will give you a greater dps increase than 1 crit rating. But when you reach an AP of 2700+ 1 crit rating will increase dps as much as 1 str and will increase dps by more than 1 str as you go higher into the 3000's. With raid buffs its pretty easy to be in the 3000's, so I would stack crit over strength as soon as you can hit close to 3000 AP raid buffed and keep doing that till you can get haste and armor pen.

Regarding hit rating and procs, I'm not sure what the proc rate of dragonstrike is but say it was a 2% proc. Each 1% hit increase would increase the proc chance by 1% * 2% = .02%, is it really worth increasing your hit to increase your proc chance by that little?

I'm pretty sure I haven't seen this linked in this thread before, even though I've been playing around with this for a while. Download the most recent version here:

Tornhoof's WoWEquipOptimizer
wowequipoptimizer - Google Code

To get a more accurate picture of the 'best' gear, run the optimizer a few times and see what you get.

There is no such spreadsheet. There is, however, a thread dedicated to two-hand/slam spec in a raid environment. It is here.

Also I wouldn't go so far as saying the damage output is *much* lower than Fury. It can be a whole lot better than you think, as well as providing the great utilitarian Blood Frenzy buff.

New to the forums and the whole theory game ( I usually just beat stuff ). However, lately I've been wondering if changing my blacksmithing spec from axe smithing to mace smithing ( I currently have Wicked Edge of the Planes ) and getting a Dragonstrike instead would be better, obviously for the haste proc. If it would be a significant increase to DPS, please let me know =)

[quote=drickz;457315]I disagree about str being the best stat till BT/Hyjal. In my theorycrafting, I've found that str is a static dps increase, while crit's dps increase scales with how much AP you have.[quote]

And strength's dps increase scales with how much crit/hit you have while crit doesn't.

While pretty neat, It didn't really help me all that much. It simply gave me all of the items I wanted to get anyway. All of it was non set plate as well and the only -Armor item was Madness of the Betrayer. It also doesn't seem to factor in Meta gems, but maybe I just kept overlooking them somehow.

4x2 = 8

2x4 = 8

3x3 = 9

Hey guys, sorry for having to post this but I’m a little stuck.

I’ve used the DPS spreadsheet and having read some of the posts here I’ve based my build and spec and gear around it but I’m still finding myself on a good raid in the top 5 for trash but by the time we have killed a boss or two I am middle to bottom of our dpsers.

For example Gruuls Lair, I spend all my time doing dps with salvation on and normally finish around 11th, SSC I do well on trash and all out on bosses but still unable to close the gaps between me and the people above me.

My basic stats in zerker is 201 hit, 31% crit and 1894 ap (unbuffed) (armory link is: The Armory)

I’ve gone for the Fury with Impale build and keep BS and Rampage up as much as possible.

My question is, have I done something wrong in selecting my gear and ap/crit/hit balance or is my rotation of BT/HS/WW/BT casing the problem?

Also, would you recommend using trinket and deathwish as often as possible? If so, I assume when flurry is up?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

Z.

Ps. As far as gear is concerned we are on Leo (missing Moro now) in SSC and have Voidy on farm.

I'm not in any way an expert but have two comments (you're probably more experienced than me so take it for what it's worth).

- For raw dps I would imagine that taking 1 point from imp WW and the point in piercing shout to get 2/2 Imp Execute would be a good move. You don't really need more than one point in Imp. WW to make the optimum dps cycle (basically BT-WW-BT-WW-BT with HS as rage dump when ~over 50-60 rage).
- Do you have WF totem in your group? Even after nerf it will be a huge buff.

If you're doing any utility stuff (keeping TC up, offtanking on trash...) I'm guessing it will be hard to be among the top 5 dps anyway.

Pretty much what Gruntle said. Another thing; are you usually grouped with a Shaman, especially and Enhancement Shaman, and if so, do you get Windfury? When it's time for Execute, do you switch out your main hand in favor of a 1.8 speed or less weapon? It makes a pretty big difference. Also, when Executing, if you ever get a rage spike and have enough to use BT, dump your rage into BT before your next Execute. A raid buffed BT has a much greater damage per rage ratio than even Improved Execute. You also want to be using Hamstring as your instant attack when both BT and WW are on cooldown, but never at a point where it will interfere with your next BT or WW's global cooldown or even having enough rage to use them.

What does the rest of your raid look like? Your placement on the meter doesn't really show how good or bad you are without comparing yourself to the rest of the raid. Maybe you have some super ranged DPS that has a more favorable group setup, or they are just that good.

What baseline crit and baseline hit are you using to determine 1 crit rating passes 1 str at that level?

Thanks for the quick feedback guys

Normally I am grouped with a Hunter and the three rogues, it is very rare that I get a shaman to play with

I hadn't thought about this as my mh is 97dps I figured it was best to stick with this, the my only other 1h is a Malchazeen?

At the risk of sounding like a nub, why use hamstring?

Z.

It used to be used a lot when BT and WW were down because it was able to proc windfury and it can crit and proc flurry.

i am currently dubious to whether it is still useful as it can no longer proc windfury and it has been shown to have 181 bonus threat per use. If I am going to get that much extra threat I would rather use a heroic strike.

You'd be losing the bonus from 2h spec, which usually keeps me from doing exactly that - I just don't feel I'm really gaining much from it - take that for what it's worth. I never did parse how it pans out exactly, though.

On a boss with any sort of splash damage that helps you maintain your rage flow even despite a slow swing speed I'm positive it's not worth the switch since you should have rage to execute on every GCD anyway, on an encounter where you're not taking damage switching to a fast 1H might *just* make up for the 10% dps loss from not utilizing 2h spec.

...but where can I find the latest spreadsheet? I've tried searching and I'm just not doing it right I guess. I apologize for being an idiot

If you cannot Execute every GCD, then yes, it's worth switching. 92 DPR vs 21 (for each excessive rage point). Then factor in your weapon speed. If you are only hitting every 3.3 - 3.6 seconds, you are crippling your Execute DPR and DPS. Slam would eventually beat out even Improved Execute (even at 3.6 speeds) though with high AP levels if your timing is never off. So there wouldn't really be any reason to even hit Execute ever at that point. When you are Slamming for 1400 on average, it would beat unimproved Execute for efficiency.

Having completely bumped miss from my attack tables, the only thing I can think of that would prevent executing every GCD is a dodge. So, that 5.6% of the time wouldn't warrant a switch to a fast 1H. Sounds good.

On a semi related note, on average, what is the dps increase with imp. execute over unimp. execute?

That's pretty flawed logic. What you're hinting at is having 4n attack power and 2n crit will yield the same amount of damage of 2n attack power and 4n crit. No data that I've seen supports the claim that if you halve your AP and double your crit it will yield the same damage.

Please do not sign your posts.

The wow equipment optimizer linked earlier appears to be flawed. Either it doesn't take armor penetration into account properly, or the stat itself is virtually worthless. It shows madness of the betrayer as being a 1 dps upgrade over bloodlust brooch, and choker of serrated blades as something like a 20 dps downgrade from pendant of the perilous. It also shows dragonstrike as being a 1 dps upgrade from rising tide and dragonspine trophy as only being a 60 dps upgrade over bloodlust brooch, so I'm not sure how accurate it is.