nfw

I tried to download the new spreadsheet but it's telling me I have to pay. Is there a free site it could be hosted on?

 

dr_AllCOM3

It's a testing version purely for the math stuff .

Not
finished.

Soon. Just did the gems, much easier to add own items now.

 

Shaka82

First i will start with apologizing for posting on this thread, i did not find any better post in the Class Mechanics thread.

My question is reagarding OH and the speed of it.
I have been thinking about getting myself a merciless wep for weilding in my OH. There is a large different in speed in my options. It is either 2,6 speed or 1.5.

I myself thinks that a weapon speed of 2.6 secs in offhand will make me do most DPS because of Flurry and a potential haste rating trinket in the future.
But according to a DPS spreadsheet i tryes out, named "WoW Equipment Optimizer" the 1,5 sec weapon will give me most DPS.
I can imagine it have to do with steadyer rage wich will make it easyer to time the different instants and HSs, and for steadyer rage when boss is in execute range.

So what do you think? will a 2.6 spedd weapon or a 1.5 sec weapon in offhand give me most DPS? we are talking about merciless weapons here. Same stats.

 

Am44

i downloaded the updated version of the spreadhseet, but whenever i add my equipment,spec,enchants etc. everything displays as N/A, coudl anyone tell me how to fix?

 

madrussian

Apologies if this has been hashed through before, Im wondering about the Darkmoon card:crusade and wether its worth using for dps as a fury warrior. My current trinkets are [Tsunami Talisman] and [Abacus of Violent Odds] so I guess the question would be: Abacus or darkmoon card? especiallly with the haste nerf coming up. I cannot get the spreadsheet working for some reason so if anyone has some insight on this please share :P

My Armory

 

Tiburon11

Changing the feedback (It's on the upper left side) to 0 fixed it for me. It stayed normal after I changed it back to 1, too.

Reclaimed is currently looking for 2 Mages, 2 Warlocks, and a Holy Priest who are Elitist Jerks just like the rest of our guild.

 

Gruntle

Yeah, you need to initialize the sheet by using 0 in the feedback option (for feeadback to work it has to have some values to start with). However, I couldn't change it to 0 using the dropbox at the gear page (the selection list only contains 1), instead I had to go to the Buffed dps page and change "Use circular refs" in cell P5 to 0. After changing this once to 0, you should have starting values for the feedback to work with, so just change it back to 1 again.

For the addition of new items, the best way of adding stuff to the selection dropdown lists is to change what cells the named lists are pointing at. Not sure how to do this exactly in Excel, in OpenOffice you do this in the following way:
1. Check which list is used for a dropbox, mark the cell with the gear name in on the "Gear" page of the sheet. Go to Data -> Validity and Criteria tab. Note the name of the "Source". (For the MH weapon this name should be Mainhand).
2. Go to the Mainhand page (or rather, the page containing the gear you've added). Go to Insert -> Names -> Define. Find "Mainhand" (or, the name that appeared in the Source box in step 1) in the list that appears, you should now see the which cells the name "Mainhand" points to (in the current version this should be the cells A2-A3). Either change this manually (just change the A3 to A10 or however many items you have added), or mark the cells with the mouse. Press OK.
3. You should now have a dropdown box on the Gear page containing all of the items in the list.

dr_AllCOM3, the buffs are not applied to the stat values yet right? That's why the current version has some large manual values for some stats? I realize it's not done, just wondering .

 

Gruntle

I'm not sure how to model the Crusade card correctly, I haven't used it myself. If I assume that the full stack will be up all the time (20 stacks times 6AP) the trinket bonus becomes a passive 120AP. If this is true I get a small dps increase (about 0.5%) by using this over Abacus (using my own sheet with my gear). I guess this will only be valid for situations where you can be sure that you're hitting the target all the time, and it won't be true during the time that you build up the stack.

The Tsunami talisman is way better than both (even with a 45 sec hidden cooldown)

With haste nerf I guess the dps increase will be slightly higher.

 

Krennick

Combining the above with what Elic said about item updates being what turned him off maintaining the spreadsheet for all time, I have a few comments.

Seeing as you're no stranger to stealing stuff from rogue sheets, I thought I'd start by mentioning Aldriana's rogue gear spreadsheet - the way it allows you to flag whether it should consider items from SSC, TK, Karazhan etc etc is inspirational.

While I'm not entirely sure what you mean by save/load item configs I'd like to throw this idea out for consideration. I suspect you are thinking about making the normal user able to export 'my items' once they are set up, update the spreadsheet and import 'my items' to bring him back to where he was item-wise, just with the updated spreadsheet mechanics.

What I'm thinking about is somewhat more complicated, but perhaps more beneficial.

Divorce item list and game mechanics/maths entirely.

Establish a spreadsheet rather like it looks now, with a sheet per item type.
Include a very short, or perhaps non-existant list of items of each type.
Establish a second spreadsheet, containing none of the maths/calculation sheet, but only the item sheets - with lots of data in them.
Create an import functionality that allows the maths/calculations spreadsheet to update its empty or near-empty item lists with the item lists from a separate spreadsheet.

The above alone would achieve what I consider the main target, and it would open up lots of interesting refinements. The main target being: It would allow you to worry about keeping the game mechanics up to date and let someone who doesn't have the spreadsheet skills to do that, but who would still like to contribute, to maintain the item list. This would prevent the burnout to item updates that Elic has experienced.

Moving on from here it allows the following...

Getting a new version of the item list I look at the 100 helms listed and delete all the ones that are blue or which I for one reason or another know I don't care about - before I import it into the main sheet. Thus my drop down selection boxes are short and to the point.

A refinement to the import functionality could make this obsolete. Similar to Aldriana's spreadsheet you could flag each item as originating in SSC or TK or whatever and on import decide if this type of items should be included or not.

One of my main issues with this type of spreadsheet is the monster length drop downs experienced when selecting an item. It wouldn't be such a bad thing imo if ways to present only the most relevant data was considered.

The above is not intended to be followed as a formula, but only to use a solution perspective to describe an area where you may want to consider making improvements.

Obviously - after the maths are to your satisfaction.

 

Apate

Sorry if I wasn't clear - I haven't downloaded the new SS yet (no gear decisions lately). I was just attempting to answer based on previous experience

See you, auntie.

 

dr_AllCOM3

They are useless click-thingies so far. Large values, so I get somewhat buffed stats, for comparison.

He knows A LOT more about Excel than I do.
A fixed sheet without the unnessecary stuff and with save/load will be very ok.

 

Machinator

Since no one seems to have a good formula for flurry, I'm attempted to make one on my own. Been a while so correct me if I get something wrong. I'm kinda writing this as I go along.

The base formula for uptime is Uptime = 1- (1-Proc Chance) ^ (Hits/Time)

For one attack procing flurry on a crit, no instants:
Flurry uptime = 1- (1- Crit%) ^ (3)

The problem is when you try to add DW or instants.
For DW you need to know the length of the flurry proc, which is variable with different speed weapons. Would that just be the avg speed of the weapons and avg hit %? The effect of flurry would be a loop but I'll ignore that part for now.
For instants Hits would be 3 + The average number of instants in that length of a flurry proc.

Example: no misses/dodges, 30% crit, 2.7 and 1.4 speed weapons, 1 Instant every 6 sec
avg weapon speed = 1.7s
avg flurry length = 5.1s
Instants = 5.1/6s = .85
uptime = 1- (1-.30) ^ (3+.85) = .7467

If the weapons are both 2.7
avg weapon speed = 2.7s
avg flurry length = 8.1
Instants = 8.1/6 = 1.35
uptime = 1- (1-.3)^ (3+1.35) = .7881

Does this make any sense or am I completely off base?

"Information is ammunition."

 

Gruntle

That looks pretty sound to me Machinator, if Flurry indeed works like we think it does (fade after 3 hits by, where 3 includes both MH and OH attacks, but not including instants).

Problem is that some tests (in a thread by Disquette a couple of months ago, http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t12720-m...es_flurry_work) indicate that flurry sometimes stays on for more than 3 hits (sometimes up to 6 hits). I'm not sure they reached any conclusion, but at some point in that thread some people thought that a fast OH weapon would always be preferred (contrary to the popular belief). I read the thread last week not sure it contains anything good for you?

 

Machinator

Ive read much of the thread at various points. I think much of the difference was due to latency, which really wont make the formula any easier to figure out. Ill check and see if any consensus was reached.

"Information is ammunition."

 

Grymm

Quick note: In Mechinator's formula he has flurry length as 8.1 seconds which is 3x the mh (or offhand) and discounts the other weapon. Also, during flurry, you will be flurried (duh) so weapon speed should be divided by 1.25. This give much shorter flurry times (probably around 3seconds). Non-flurried time will have less swings per second and then be longer than the percentage would think. Therefore, the percent is probably a high measurement as for flurry up as a percentage of time and more accurate for the flurry time up for a percentage of swings.

 

Clockwise

Does anyone have haste numbers modeled for the 2.2 nerf? The comparison I'm really looking at is [Swiftsteel Shoulders] vs. [Blood-stained Pauldrons]. This comparison will solve a lot of issues for me if I can just make sure I have it 100% correct.

 

Dynalisia

In the absence of a solid spreadsheet, it might be an idea to just make a big fat thread that would only be focused on discussing and compiling gear choices for Tier 6 raid drops. We can discuss things slot-by-slot, ending up with a pretty useful reference for any dps warriors looking to choose their gear wisely in the endgame. Having to ask what people think of the choice between various items for a slot is normally a bit awkward because of the buttheadness of it (wow.com forumesque etc) but right now there simply does not seem to be any good alternatives. Especially seeing how many of these questions pop up in the various dps-warrior related threads atm (hell we even have a seperate thread entirely for just Arms weapons). Honestly, I'm not much use for spearheading something like this, as I'd rank myself far below the smarter people that roam threads like these, or I would do it myself.

 

Grymm

I have a spreadsheet I've been using for comparison. Basically, I take the stats of an item and breakdown what they equate to in meaningful stats. I include gems, gem bonuses, and talents/buffs I have (kings/imp zerker) to find how much hit/crit/ap I get. I then just do a sum total of the itemization points that item has in DPS stats. 1 Agility converted into crit rating, str is converted to AP, final AP is divided by 2 and added to hit/crit/haste. It gives a brute force "dps" value. I tried to take armor/stam/agility and equate them to a "survivability" value that could be added at a reduced rate (ie sacrificing 6 str for 40 stam might be a good idea) but I couldn't decide on a good weighting so I use the "DPS" value instead mostly for comparisons. It helps the most when comparing a "rogue" item with agil/hit to a warrior item which has crit/hit. The sum totals for items was pretty cool to compare between slots even. The T4 leggings seem to be inferior to the Red Belt of Battle in pure dps so if I had to DPS with one piece of armor in my bag, I'd probably be doing it without pants on.

It's not an accurate comparison given AP/Crit/Hit have different rates of return for actual DPS, but having all those items in a sheet is definitely interesting to look at.

 

Gruntle

I assume that you're using the DPS warrior spreadsheet, since you're posting in this thread. If you want to look at the effect of the haste nerf on your output dps you can easily change the combat rating conversion for Haste in the sheet. In the old version of the sheet, the combat ratings have their own page, just find the haste value (15.8) and change this to ~10 (or whatever the new rating is, I'm not sure). In the new version (dr_ALLCOM's) the combat ratings are on the same page as the gear choosing page. You'll have to type in the stats for the gear if it's not in the sheet.

I think you should be fine using the old sheet for comparing looking at changes due to the haste nerf. It lacks the WF nerf and some other recent changes, but if you just want to compare two items with and without the haste nerf it should be ok.

 

dr_AllCOM3

Warrior DPS Spreadsheet Version 0.3

You may play around with this now.
Should be a lot more usable. Please report any error you find. It is not finished!
You can enter your items now, lots of space avaiable and I don't plan to change anything there, so your items are "safe".
DPS should be more or less correct for DW, like in the original sheet. Buffs included now.

Thing to do next:
Sword spec
2.2 Haste+Proc nerf
Some small unimportant things

Need to know:
Can WF glance? (I say yes)
Does WF get Impale bonus? (I say no)

edit: forgot gem bonuses

 

Gruntle

Great, will start playing around with it now

We should check whether WF can glance, in the old sheet the extra attacks we're modeled as yellow attacks (with the low miss rates and no glancing blows), this is a quite major change in how much damage WF does.

edit:
Ok I had a look at it. It looks very nice and seem to be generating reasonable results, great work!

However, I have some questions:
- The BT/WW Slam rotation seems to output the best dps, even for a DW fury spec without Imp. Slam. I've never even seen such a cycle before, what does it mean? Also, even when using a very fast MH (1.6, hasted down to 1.4) this cycle outputs the best dps. This seems wrong to me, how can you time the slams if the swing time<cast time for slam? Is Slam really correctly modeled? Or is that only for 2h weapons? In that case it might be worth dividing up the output dps cells into 2h and DW sections, I find it a little bit confusing as it is.
- The Cycle info field, is that used for anything? The values in it seem to be for the MS/WW cycle, despite the fact that I don't have MS as a talent?
- Imp. Slam is not a available as a talent, is it always assumed to be taken?
- "No damage talents in prot tree", well, One-handed weapon spec will give damage and Focused rage will affect the rage cost of HS. I think they should be included for completeness.
- SEP calculations, I think they are quite useful, and should be fairly easy to include in the new sheet (I would be willing to make a script if you want me to).

 

Baragdur

Just a litte thing i noticed when i went through the spreadsheet:
You use the wrong values for +weapon skill. There was some thread about weapon skill and how it converted into hit:

edit: My crit rate seems to be much to low somehow.. seems like you forgot to add the crit out of cruelty

 

dr_AllCOM3

@Baragdur
Implementing +skill like that will be complicated .

@Gruntle
The Slam cycle is highly theoretical atm. I use it like this in raids, good damage. But you don't always have rage for every MS/WW, thats what makes it so difficult to model.
Which info field do you mean?
Imp. Slam is assumed to have, I should note that. You don't slam without it anyway.
I won't do Prot DPS, when you are Prot spec you tank.
SEP script is still in the sheet.

edit: ## 0.3.1 ##
with my items slam produces much more realistic numbers.

 

Gruntle

So that cycle is only for 2h weapons with MS then? It would perhaps be appropriate to set the dps of MS cycles to 0 when you don't have MS (and the same for BT). Or give an option to choose the cycle you want to use (there's not that many different cycles to choose from, I don't think there is any real need to optimize over different cycles). Using a cycle with Slam must be quite hard to model, you're bound to lose some white dps due to Slam resetting swing timers.

On the Buffed dps page to the far right you have gray field with Cycle info, not sure what it's used for though.

Ok, but the script need to be updated to point at the correct cells and an "Update SEP" button has to be created. Will have a look at that later.

 

dr_AllCOM3

It only works for weapons slower than 2.8 speed. Slam isn't finished anyway, it's more like a guess.

Uh, looks like I have to do something with that. I'm not happy with the whole cycle system anyway.


The goal for this version was the layout, to make it usable.