Turpin

yes

 

Caesar

that is what I ment yes.

Deep wounds ticks for the crit that did the damage, so if it's an offhand crit it will barely do anything, if it's from a BT crit it will do much more. is the target mangled? +30% etc.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but it would be a very complex formulae that will be very hard to model to reality very well, because of that bug and external factors. And all in all I don't think it's worth it, and I hardly think it will make any changes in peoples descision in gear choice wich is the reason for this spreadsheet.

tbh I think the best way to model it would be to look at lot's of WWS threads and see: oh' a slam warrior gets 4% of his dps from deep wounds, a fury warrior 3%. let's add it! if you where to implement some deep wounds theory in to it :-P

 

Machinator

How does deep wounds work with multiple crits of different sizes? If my BT crits and my OH crits right after does it replace the old stack with one with less damage or does it just reset the timer?

"Information is ammunition."

 

Garithras

Deep Wounds only ticks every 2 seconds. First crit starts the timer. If you have another crit within 2 seconds of the first, the timer restarts, and the first crit won't tick at all. The most recent crit is the only one that matters. Off-hand crits will replace any main-hand crits. Deep Wounds is obviously more effective for a 2h build where swings are slower, and the ticks are larger, but it is pretty piss-poor even then. You basically only get Deep Wounds for Impale.

 

woo-haa

For a 2H slam spec it will do around 4%-6% damage. This is quite good for 2 points so low in the arms tree. It will be a bit lower for DW spec, though.

Here are some WWS parses with 2H slam spec: http://wowwebstats.com/h4a6s1eerqbtq?

 

Apate

Wasn't it discovered that this didn't change?
Proc Per Minute Mechanics & Haste


Also - What is the current state of DW swap inside execute range?

I can't say that I do this 100% of the time, but my weapon swap macro that switches between 2h-Sword + board will swap to DW weapons with ctrl pressed, and I've found it to be useful (like last night with no WF and no feral) for execute range.

See you, auntie.

 

Turpin

I would suggest adding a latency/reaction time factor to cycle times that include slam, and allow the user to modifying if he wants.
So for instance cell B52 on Buffed DPS spreadsheet is
=IF(($P$14+(1.5-Talents_Buffs!$E$24*0.5))>3.3,($P$14+(1.5-Talents_Buffs!$E$24*0.5))*4,0)

so you could add "X" to 1.5 here where "X" is the latency/reaction time for slamming. From initial accounts X could be somewhere between .3-.7 so perhaps a default value of .5.

 

dr_AllCOM3

I've actually done that for personal testing, but don't we press every button too late then?
Anyway, I'm not happy with Slam as it clearly produces too much DPS.

Edit: With (I think) corrected gained rage and 0,5s lag/reaction time the Slam cycle goes down by over 200 DPS. White DPS and rage gen weren't slowed by Slam.
~T5 and equivalent items:
DW axe 1126 DPS (scales much better from additional rage by damage taken or whatever)
2h axe 952 DPS

 

Eliminate2

I just ran into an issue. I was just playing around with the gear setup and making a wish list. I came up with a list that involved 167 haste rating for a 2h setup. A 33/28 build with 3/5 flurry. I was trying to see what swiftsteel bracers would do to the dps. Then the dps displays "div/o!". I would assume this is the haste cap for 2h? Is something in the math that is preventing the average swing speed calculation to go below 2.8 from 3.5? (the critical value that was causing this was 167 haste rating total. If I get it to 168, it errors. - this is 20% haste if i did my math right).

I can post the gear list if needed.

Crit rating seem to have a similar cap. A setup of 252 crit rating already. Then if you try to add another 184 rating to the setup. So at a total of 335 crit rating, it errors.

 

Turpin

in the raid boss armor thread someone posted that his tests showed that most bosses had either 6200 or 7700 armor. maybe you can use these settings to fine tune boss armor or something else.

 

Gruntle

First one is that the slam cycle used does not allow the weapon speed to become lower than 2.8 sec. Actually, I think it's impossible to make a slam sequence work for <2.8 sec speed if I remember reading slam guides correctly).

Second one might be that you are reaching close to 100% flurry uptime and that this causes problems with the circular references, try turning of circular references and see if it works (it works for me anyway without circ refs).

edit: no, even with circular ref I can't reproduce the problem you had with crit. Perhaps it has to do with the amount of time spent flurried and that the slam cycles can't be done. Bottomline is, you cannot use too much passive haste (+flurry) when using a imp slam cycle.

 

• Rerox

Could you please use ZIP-compression instead of RAR?
Since ZIP is already integrated into Windows its much easier to handle than using unrar to get access to your spreadsheet.

 

Gruntle

Is mongoose really worth it?

I've been doing some comparisons of mongoose with Potency on MH with a DW setup in the spreadsheet. The results for a 2.6 speed MH (Fool's bane) is that I get out about 2.6 more dps (about 0.2% in my gear) with Mongoose than with Potency. That increase in dps seems hardly worth the cost of getting Mongoose (and replacing it when you upgrade your weapon). My gear is at kara level (or well, some kara weapons but pre-kara armor ofc), maybe the effect is a lot bigger when you have better gear? I checked with slightly better gear, but the difference is still at the 0.2% level.

 

Hozz

I notice that in the items spreadsheet, [Madness of the Betrayer] is giving the -300 armor of its proc, full time. This significantly overvalues the trinket.

 

amethyst

It all depends how effective you want you and your raid to be.

You'll probably find that most people who really look into the maths & mechanics are raiding at MH / BT level or at very least SSC/TK.

When you're in a situation where you're facing a new challenge and you need every bit of performance from your 25-man raid, then of course it is worth doing everything you can to improve your performance.

2.6 dps for you from your weapon enchant. What about other locations, do you have best possible enchant there, or something to "get by" until you get better gear? It all adds up.

I'm not saying you're wrong exactly. I mean, I hardly bothered with enchants at all on gear I used to level in the 65-70 range. Probably wouldn't have bothered at all if my wife's character wasn't an enchanter. So I can see a similar pattern in raiding KZ and thinking, "I won't bother doing it properly, as I'll get better soon"

However, there are a good many raid guilds / groups out there who fail to progress in 25-man content because the majority of their members still think that way.

 

Gruntle

I guess you're right, I just thought the difference would be larger than 0.2% in damage. For most people I think replacing a +8hit gear with a +4str/crit gear will give a dps increase almost comparable to this (gives me about 1.6 dps). Sure if you already have the best possible configuration it makes sense to get mongoose, I just don't see it as a priority when still doing Kara.

Ofc it doesn't help that I'm trying to save for my epic flyer and at the same time upgrading/enchanting/gemming my gear

 

dr_AllCOM3

Seems like you get too fast for Slam then and there's no error check .

I already know that.

No. Winrar is free.

Maybe not at Kara level.

 

Eliminate2

Also, I was wondering if there is anyway, to associate a talent spec with a gear set? So I don't have to load 2 things every time I look at fury to 2h. Since I'm my guild's dps warrior, I get to pick and choose gear suitable for both, and it's just a hassle changing on both sheets. Obviously great work on the spreadsheet, but I'm sure there are more lazy people like me. =P

 

Hozz

What is the default value for the target's armor in the spreadsheet? I saw some armor and % values under the Buffed DPS tab but it was not clear to me how they related to each other, exactly.

 

Strongerhoof

How would you add the Crystalforged Trinket into the spreadsheet? The one that adds +7 weapon damage.

 

Eliminate2

Ya, I was wondering the same thing. Since you model adamantite sharpening stone as only the crit value. While it has the weapon damage buff as well.

 

Gaiwer

One quick and simple question: whit furry specc (dw) armor penetration or haste is better?

 

Bakatora

When I put my new items in, everything works okay, but when i hit calculate it returns 3 different values if pressed multiple times. Which value is most accurate? Why is it giving me 3 different numbers? qq

 

Gruntle

It's because of the use of circular refs. Sometimes you have to recalculate a few times to get the correct value. After calculating a few times the value should be constant, this is then the correct value (iterating to find a converging value).

 

Nuar

First, I just want to thank dr_AllCOM3 for his work on this sheet. It's made optimizing my (rather poor) gear much more pleasant.

I just started playing again after a break, and have been tweaking my gear and rotation, and I'm looking for a little clarification about the cycles it recommends. For my gear and spec, its recommending "3 BT, 2 WW", which under the Buffed DPS tab has a length listed of 18. I'm assuming that in an 18 second window, my optimal DPS cycle would be 3 BTs and 2 WWs. I see that it lists 1 HS in there as well, I'm just a little confused on its priority in the rotation. Currently, I try to prioritize, hitting BT and WW on every cooldown, and hitting HS whenever I have surplus rage (leaving enough to hit BT/WW when they're up).

Am I close to interpreting that correctly, or am I over thinking this?