Rhaeti

That's correct. You don't want to starve yourself of rage by using HS too much and missing CDs on instants. If you get a crit streak going you can use it consecutively, but just use it depending on how much excess rage you have. You always want to keep enough rage so you can use whatever ability is next after a GCD.

 

Gruntle

The sheet actually calculates your rage generation and consumption to find which cycle will give the most dps. In the case of 3BT,2WW +1 HS this means that you "should" have the rage to do 1 HS while still doing 3 BTs and 2WWs (and keeping battle shout/rampage up) over a 18 sec cycle. In reality you will perhaps not get all that rage (boss turning around, you have to move, bandaging, not pressing BT/WW exactly when it's up and so on), the sheet cycle is more a theoretical model of reality. But if your sheet show 1 HS with your current gear, it's likely that you might actually lose so much rage (due to the factors above) that you can't do the HS. In reality you could use a castsequence with BT,WW,BT,WW,BT and do HS whenever rage>50-60. BT and WW are the most important spells.

Just a note, if your gear is bad (or don't have full dps talents) you might get 3BT/2WW cycle as best cycle, but with very little rage to spare (i.e. 0 HS). If you then lose some rage, you won't be able to keep the cycle up. In that case it's better to just prioritize BT and do WW whenever you have rage to spare.

 

DKP-Borgar

Just have been running some different gear setups and noticed fang of vasj seems to be better in my mainhand with merciless glad-offhand opposed to the decapitator in my mh (both with mongoose).
Shouldn't the dmg from ww and hs more then compensate the higher average dmg in my mainhand (92,1 dps vs. 100,3 dps)? I know I could spam hs more often with the dagger (1,8 speed) but that puts me at risk with my aggro.

The fang has also +weaponskill, so I'm wondering wether any calculation got maybe thrown off, because it added the +weaponskill to the offhand (which is a the glad sword version). Just a suspicion though.

Until now i used the fang only for my execution setup at 20% Boss HP.

 

Gruntle

I think there is indeed a bug with the spreadsheet, cell M13 contains the miss chance for the offhand weapon, it reads:

[top]MAX(S2-P10-IF(S6-S9>

360;S8*0.4%;3%+(S8-5)*0.1%);0),
where S8 is the MH weapon skill and S9 the OH skill. It should be:

[top]MAX(S2-P10-IF(S6-S9>

360;S9*0.4%;3%+(S9-5)*0.1%);0)
to do the correct thing I think.

However, even when correcting for this, Fang of Vashj will be the superior MH weapon, 8.2 dps is just a too big dps increase for WW extra damage to compensate (and the minor effects from procs). This is what I get with the spreadsheet with a corrected cell M13. If you get an OH dagger you will be able to get the +weapon skill effect also on the OH.

 

Hozz

Can someone answer this for me? It looks like ~7310 is the base armor of the target for DPS purposes?

 

Turpin

its in cell P3 and Q3 on buffed dps sheet. it does show the boss armor directly just 1-reduction%

 

Strongerhoof

So can anyone answer the +weapon damage questions?

 

Turpin

In Cell H13 and I13 on the buffed dps spreadsheet it seems that 19% (.19) miss rate is being subtracted incorrectly for 2 handed builds.

 

Apate

Try adding 7 to the low- and high-end damage on your weapon and using either an empty trinket slot or put any other (it has an on-use, I think?) stats there.

See you, auntie.

 

Harpown

Hello, ive been rolling fury for a while, and ive always been critical about hit.

Can someone tell me whats good hit rating? i tend to keep it at 200ish and not go below that

 

Machinator

The minimum hit rating is whatever you need to get +9% so you dont miss specials. Anything beyond that is only 'needed' if you want more consistent rage generation. If you have no problems with keeping things on cooldown you don't need more hit, other stats can increase your rage and do more damage per rating. This is not to say that hit is bad, it will increase your white damage, but its not all that some people make it out to be.

"Information is ammunition."

 

Gruntle

The adamantine sharpening stones are already modeled with +weapon damage, check the cells just under the weapon min and max damage. The damage from this is then added to the MH average damage in cell P12 on the Buffed dps page.

For the trinket, if you just want a quick fix, just add the +weapon damage to cell P12.

 

Graul

On the last spreadsheet I used (three versions ago I think), [Rising Tide] was a slight upgrade over [Wicked Edge of the Planes], yet with the current spreadsheet it's clearly inferior no matter what gear setup I use. Does this sound correct to anyone else?

 

Painkiller

crit > hit, aswell as a slower weapon therefore a higher top end

 

Graul

Higher top end doesn't really mean anything with a DW Fury build except for WF (much less of an impact now) hits and Cleave. WW isn't going to make that much of a difference between one handed weapons either. My problem is that the sheet said one thing before and now says something entirely different, so I don't really know if I should even trust it or not at this point.

 

Gruntle

Sound reasonable, I wouldn't call it "clearly inferior", the Wicked edge does about 3 more total dps (in my gear), but if you have both you should ofc use the Wicked edge. At least if you trust the spreadsheet. If I look at the details in dps sheet, Wicked edge does more cycle damage (due to higher max damage and slightly better stats) and gives more OH damage (higher stats). Rising tide does a bit more MH damage though.

edit: higher max damage/speed will only affect WW, not WF damage nor Cleave (well not on single targets anyway), slower weapons do slightly more procs though (due to instants using a higher proc per swing chance).

 

Graul

I don't have both though, and the off-hand weapon that I want is a [Swiftsteel Bludgeon]. Before, Tide + Bludgeon was around 18 DPS more than either Wicked Edge + Tide or Wicked Edge + Bludgeon. But now it's around 8 DPS less? And the sheet I was using before had the 2.2 haste values already, so that isn't the reason.

And I was only considering multiple targets with Cleave when I said that. I wasn't really thinking fully on the WF statement though. The change was a "normalization" for all weapons. WW is also normalized though, and the difference between the two axes shouldn't be more than what, 4 DPS?

Actually, the average hit with the Tide is 260.5 and the Edge is only 263. This is pre AP bonus, but that doesn't matter since they both get the same on instants.

 

Machinator

I think that the benefit of more efficient HS/Cleave is more than the benefit of bigger WW when using a slower weapon. If its twice as slow, then thats half the rage to get the same % of your MH swings with less miss chance and no glances.

"Information is ammunition."

 

Kurtov

I'll reiterate, thanks for all the hard work putting this together dr_AllCOM3. I'm stuck with part-time tank, part-time dps and I was wondering if anyone had advice on how to implement One-handed Weapon Specialization in the spreadsheet. I know it's really deep in prot, but with the change to Bloodthirst threat coming up, maybe I can swing a 0/31/30 build. Yeah, I'm probably dreaming, but it would be nice to run the numbers to confirm it.

 

dr_AllCOM3

Wicked Edge has the best stats a DW weapon can have. Tide has useless Sta+Hit. Yes, stats > all for Fury.

Oh, yes. Don't know what that 0,19 is, but there was an error. More DW damage inc .

Yes, it sucks for Fury.

I so hate that question .

It is in there. Talents_Buff, Protection: No dmg here.

 

Strongerhoof

Thanks, you helped me realize how gimp that trinket actually is. :-\

 

Eliminate2

Any possibility on this?

 

Gruntle

Yeah something like that. As dr_ALLCOM said the stats are just very good on Wicked edge, these stats apply to both MH and OH damage as well as BT, the extra dps on Rising tide only applies for direct damage from the MH weapon and WW damage, this is probably less than 40% of the total damage you do as DW fury (BT is not based of weapon damage).

I don't know what changed between the sheets, but there's been quite a lot of changes done to it since the first beta versions. There were a number of bugs with the talents and buffs that got sorted at some point, maybe this affected your numbers.

 

Gruntle

I think One-handed Weapon Specialization just adds 10% to all damage while using onehanded weapons (both yellow and white damage I think?). This means that you can just multiply your dps with 1.1 to find the dps with this talent. In the sheet I guess you could add "*1.1" in cell M5 on the buffed dps page (but remember to remove it when done testing this spec).

 

zaon

I was curious so I went ahead and modified the spreadsheet to handle protection oriented talents:

0.99_dev

I included talents as they will be in 2.3 (imp sunder + focused rage = 9 rage devastates). I also added a few of my own gear sets and odd talent choices just to see how they did. Feel free to clean those up if you want to include the changes.

- added support for vitality, devastate, 1h spec
- added a 6 dev/1 WW 10.5 sec dps rotation

I did not update the threat sheet.

PS - as for hybrid tank/dps builds you will find that 0/31/30 is not much more dps than 12/5/43 for 2.3. If you really want some points in protection your best bet is 0+/41+/15+.