Tel

After testing this today, it seems to be around 100 yards :(

 

Symbul

Pet range is a little longer than Mark if anything. I've been abusing HM and pet attack on Rogues in BGs like hell. Very bad patch for stealth. :)

 

Kjaska

any word on CoS breaking Fear/Sheep/Charm/Trap in TBC?

 

pf

I can understand using HM on rogues, but since your main is a rogue, I would assume you would have the courtesy not to exploit against rogues. Of course, if it happens enough, it might actually get fixed.

 

Trazhenko

As far as I know, the pet thing has always worked this way. I don't think it started this patch. People are just making a lot of noise about it now.

 

Crossbones

It doesn't break them, you have to pre-empt the cast to be immune.

 

◊ Kalman

I have managed to simulcast a CoS where the spell lands and CoS goes off at the same time, and it doesn't appear to speed up the CC breaking (i.e. it doesn't appear to apply to heartbeat resist checks).

 

kharen

Poking around on thott, it seems that the aura CoS applies is "Reduces Attacker Chance to Hit with Spells (Spells)", which suggests that it would only apply to the initial hit-check on the spell, rather than any subsequent resist-checks (although i'm not entirely certain how caster mechanics work, so i might be talking bollocks here).

Also, checking the thott spell DB explained something i saw in AV the other day - i popped CoS to get out of a frost nova, took a trinketed PoM pyro to the face, and it got a big fat "Immune" message. It seems that the CoS debuff clearing is implemented as a very brief immunity aura, so i guess i managed to hit CoS and have it take effect so that the pyro hit in that 0.001 second window.

 

◊ Shaker

If only we could hearth during that .001 seconds . . . .

Consistency. It's only a virtue if you're not a screwup.

 

Tower

Same ole song and dance. I've kicked a mage casting polymorph and had the combat log say I interupted the cast, but been turned into a sheep. And of course there's the ole cheapshot+gouge on a mage, he'll often be spamming blink - to which he'll get it off but be gouged when he lands.

Anyone have some good videos of CloS working in synergy with Setup? Funny to see a warlock give you 5cp after a 5cp evis because of CloS+Setup. I've yet to spec that deep into sub with my raid schedule and playtime.

 

Rennoko

Pet attack range is just around the same range as hunters mark, which is now 100 yards, but USED to be an infinite range (Classified as 50,000). Im not sure what is with all this crap about 200 yards, thats just not the case. In the past, getting marked from anything over 150 yards was somewhat broken, so they lowered it to a 100 yard range.

I dont use my pet to attack rouges from 100 yards so they dont get to remain stealthed, because there is really no point, unless your concerned about your GCD. A mark is just as effective at keeping track of them as sending your pet in if not better. In both cases you can vanish to reset the pet or mark.

In the case of warlocks, yeah i will agree that being able to knock rouges out of stealth isnt exactly "fair", but for hunters it really doesnt make any difference, since mark does the same thing.

Suggesting pets only be able to be commanded to attack from smaller ranges is stupid, try dealing with grinding every day waiting for your pet to reach a mob. As much fun as the mini-game of being the healer, the tank, and the dps all the time while solo is.

Reducing mark range to 60-80 yards would be fine in addition to fixing the pet AI, but as everyone else already said, its the classification of the pets as mobs that results in this bug, be it intended or not. It could be worse, like it was before, and a pet commanded to attack could put you in combat from 100 yards away as opposed to the less distance it is now.

 

Trazhenko

The main difference between Hunter's Mark and pets is this:

With Mark, I know that you know where I am. Blowing a 5 minute vanish timer to hide is my choice at this point.

With the pet being sicced on me by a hunter 100 yards *behind* me, I'm probably not going to see it coming. When the pet gets there, I may be in stealth about 20 yards from a caster I want to kill. OOPS! Look at me! I'm out of stealth, out of range, and grabbing my ankles.

 

Wodahs

"try dealing with grinding every day waiting for your pet to reach a mob"

lol? What do you think us non pet classes do? If its not in ranged range, you shouldnt be able to attack it, imo.

 

Rennoko

At least they dont site the lore for this situation anymore and claim pets can "smell" stealthed rouges. That was a great blue response. Back when pets on agressive would attack anything stealthed within 30 yards.

If this is really such a concern i would be more aware of my suroundings. Its not hard to tell if a pet is coming for you if you check its target. If you know a hunter is around, just be aware that 5-10 seconds after you stealth, its possible a pet of some kind might be coming for you.

Now whats really unfair, and i will agree, is a hunter using a stealthed pet who is coming after you. Cant see it and you dont know its there. Thats a def. a screw for the rogues.

 

Rennoko

Right, because being able to walk up to every mob and stun it is the same as having your damage cut by 70% when it gets within 10 yards of you. Because growl is bugged right now its actually pleasant to grind. When you have to walk on egg shells to avoid pulling agro and being forced to kite mobs gets old after about 5 mins.

 

pf

With mark/pet you can keep 2 rogues out of stealth from 100 yds. This is a clear advantage over just having mark.

With a pet, you can /target and send pet to a location out of line of sight and use it to bring said rogue out of stealth. (this has happened to me more than once, and its quite annoying being attacked out of stealth from a hunter pet while the hunter is guarding the wsg in the flag room)

With hunters mark, I know that as long as i stay away from the hunter, I'm ok. I will not charge a group of horde while stealthed and marked, but I might end up popped out of stealth just inside their range if thats the case. (similar to how old flare used to be, a nice kick in the crouch that you could not see)


Anyway, this is not the WoW forums, so this discussion really shouldnt be taking place here.

 

syr

Even at the risk of sounding like a whining child I think atleast some people will agree your sentiments are "slightly" out. Having a pet run at you out of stealth when you're not even capable of targetting the player (let alone seeing the player assuming you run anything close to lowest quality distance setting's - as I myself do) is a somewhat moderate inconvenience when it occurs. Most of the time the hunter never even goes for you and the pet's gone fairly shortly after but you lose your stealth and this can reveal you to other players (whereas, I don't believe other player's will see or be aware of your "mark"), this point is especially notable due to the fact pet's have become increasingly powerful over time.

Though, I am quite frankly in the "When did this become a huge issue?" camp, I think there are more important changes that could perhaps be considered for the class at this time. Since I do not have a BC beta account I'll abstain from whining further, as my concerns may well be entirely addressed in the retail release (though I still think rogue's are a long way from seeing any synergy effects I'd dream to be able to spec towards or gain on levelling).

 

Trazhenko

So, TBC talents are on the test realm, but the server wasn't up yesterday, and all I had time for Tuesday was a 4K ambush in the valley of trials with "lolshadowstep".

The Backstab/SnD swap opens up a lot of freedom for assass/sub builds. I'm considering taking 40/0/11 at 60 to start leveling up.

Sure, it's not as many CPs as Mutilate, and probably less damage overall, but it has these upsides:

-Still have Find Weakness
-No poison on target limitation
-Free to take more of the nice non-poison talents in assass (def. get your imp. KS)
-Works with 4pc BS bonus
-1 more point in MoD (I'm planning on 4/5 and 2 in imp sap)

Can anyone tell me how often I'll run into poison immune stuff that I'll want to grind on?

 

◊ Kalman

Almost never. I think there was one quest in Nagrand and a couple in Netherstorm where the quest mobs were poison immune, but 99% of what I was killing was poisonable.

 

kharen

Speaking of poison-immune mobs and the effect they have on mutilate's effectiveness, i noticed this on the beta forums earlier:

Can we get the druid guy working on rogues for a week or two?

Please...?

 

Tiiki

That's pretty nonsensical.

If you can get a bleed bonus on an elemental, why not poisons?

 

Glass

I'd have to test this more, but I swear i ran into some of the elite mobs in AV that were giving "immune" to my poisons but the crippling and mind numbing debuffs were on the target and I was getting the mutilate bonus. I'll look more carefully next time I'm in there but I'm pretty sure.

 

Abi

ROGUE. T_T

Personally I think this change is pretty perplexing. If an unmarked rogue/druid gets away, goes OOC and restealths, it shouldn't be possible to drag him/her out of stealth via a pet. The pet should lose the target on restealth. I can't remember how this worked pre-patch, but it seems overly cheesy to me.


On a seperate note, what would be a decent leveling build come TBC? I doubt I'll do much PVP pre-70, and this amazingly lame CB/prep/hemo spec I'm currently using to farm up a bit of gear just irks the living hell out of me.
I'm wearing a full blue pvp set, Ony neck, MHing a GM fist, bluish gear otherwise. I enjoy the finishing power CB has, and I miss the hell out of precision and blade flurry. 21/30/0 picking up AR at 61 seems very tempting.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=whxrRx0oZG0EkMVzV

Oh yeah, this rogue is on a PVE server. :]

I've got a rogue back on the PVP server I transfered from I'll go back and have some PVP fun with (hopefully), when I'm bored and feel like stabbing someone.

 

Lionus

Hi,

I have a question that needs answering.

3/3 imp kidney: +9% dmg during stun
5/5 find weakness: 10sec +10% dmg after a finisher.

kidney is a finisher, so it should give the find weakness buff. Do the 9% and 10% stack ?

 

Laïri

Yes they do. The mob takes 9% more damage from all sources while hit by your imp KS you deal 10% more damage for 10s after any finisher including KS. The effects stack in a multiplicative fashion.