Has anyone noticed that sometimes you miss loot using this macro? My blood elf rogue that I'm levelling has seen a number of times now potions or junkboxes flash by in the pickpocket loot window, but not get looted.

Autoloot sometimes fails for no good reason, including on just regular corpses. There's probably some sort of weird latency bug, but whatever. I just sorta shrug and write it off, as I wouldn't have bothered to do the pickpocketing at all manually.

And the amount of gold/items I've been raking in by using these macros offsets the occasional missed potion or whatever. As Wodin said, I probably wouldn't have done the Pick Pocket in the first place, if it wasn't for the macro.

/bow B)

Now who can tell me how I change my green starred custom rank thingamabob?

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I'm about to hit 70 and will respec soon. How about this for a mutilate build, just a different version of the 41/20.

The difference is that there is no imp. KS and you have both 5/5 vile and imp poisons, meaning that Envenom will be your main finisher. I see this working quite nice in raid fights since you can keep up your SnD cycle and instead of either rupturing/evisc you envenom. Envenom has a higher burst damage then Evis (I think?) but no armor check. With keeping Slice and Dice up, you'll have more then enough time to get the 5 charges of Deadly poison up as well. So in theory, this can outdamage an Eviscerating Mutilate build?

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=w0eboExoizVoGcV0bV

Sure, envenom will do more than eviscerate. But you will do less deadly poison damage. 50% of the time you will have windfury mainhand so getting 5 dp up will take a while. Envenom is not made for raiding, it was made for pvp, specifically from a long heard suggestion from the rogue forums of making evis ignore armor... well here it is, evis ignoring armor, but at a cost. This means its more for pvp, its just a shame that you wont use it in pvp much because crippling/wound is far more powerful in most pvp situations. Deadly/envenom could be a nice duel tactic vs turtling warriors/druids, but thats about it.

...It's been soo long since I raided, that I forgot about Windfury completely hah. But, GoA + this spec could be nice. No Windfury then.

I have already tried an envenom biased mutilate build and as posted above: You simply don't generate the 5 stacks of DP fast enough. There will be plenty of times where you have 5cps and 3 stacks of DP. So it might be a finisher cycle of SnD > Envenom > Rupture/Evisc > repeat. Which kinda makes it pointless to spend 5 talent points only to up the damage of a finisher you will perform once per 3 cycles.

Add in the fact that you will lose all the DoT damage from the 5DPs and I think you will find envenoms only real use is as a REAL finisher. i.e. the mob will die when you click it =/.

Its removed from my action bar now =/.

However, there will not be plenty of times when this is a problem. As long as your energy bar isn't at 110 and Find Weakness isn't about to run out, you aren't losing DPS, you're merely delaying your Envenom until another couple stacks hit. The only time this complaint is relevant is in the following situations:

Can't hit a big Envenom before the mob dies? Oh noes, I need that overdamage to pad the meter :(

Soloing? CS -> Expose or S&D -> Muti, wait for energy, KS -> Muti -> Envenom. If you don't have 4 stacks up after 9+ seconds time on target, examine your hit%, or bank the GM dirks.

Desperately need more burst than a 3-CP Envenom will get you? Evisc. If it's really important, CB Evisc.

I'll also point out that a 1.8+ speed dagger in the OH is not a necessity. A 1.6 or 1.7-speed dagger will lose you a small amount of Mutilate damage but the gains in poison application and Shiv cost may be worth it.

As for Windfury, keep in mind that if the Shaman in your group is Enhancement, you have to balance yourself with WF versus yourself and him with GoA, since the WF totem offers him zero benefit. You may also have a Hunter in your party, or a Feral Druid. I doubt that, fresh at 70, gear will have scaled enough for WF to outperform GoA by a margin that means it's okay to ignore your party members' preferred buff. (Also, if you deny him GoA, you better not complain that Unleashed Rage isn't always up :P)

I'm currently (at level 63) a deep Subtlety Hemo build. However, as a rampant neophile I'm determined to see what use I can make of Envenom. That means yoinking points out of Sub for the poison talents, at the very least. I like Hemo though, and I'm geared for it. I also can't *stand* arsing around gouging, moving to get behind things etc. Dagger rogue PvE play seems to me to be overwhelmingly finicky and annoying. So I won't go for Mutilate.

One thing I'll note is that when soloing and in small groups, the vast majority of DP damage is wasted *anyway*, as the mob dies before the ticks run out. Thus the "lost" damage from Envenom dropping the DP stack is illusory.

There's still the issue that the DP stack builds slower than your CP stack, leading to things getting out of sync. Again, I'm not convinced this has to be an issue. For a Hemo build, Rupture gives the highest damage per CP, and like Envenom it ignores armor. That's assuming the Rupture ticks full, which a 5 point Rupture generally won't. So you want to toss in Rupture early, which means you restart your CPs and give time for DP to build.

I'm thinking of trying something like this build:
http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/ba...30300010000000

CPs should be coming in extremely fast, DP will also build at a reasonable rate. Open with Cheap Shot, Hemo, 3-4 point Rupture. Follow with Ghostly Strike for when the CS wears off. Build up the CP stack - by the time I get to 5, DP will probably be fully stacked, so finish with Envenom. Mob is dead, so (if you like) the Envenom has actually *rescued* the DP damage that would otherwise have been lost. Only remaining question is whether I want DP on both weapons or just 1 - will test it and report back. Currently I'm thinking 1 will be sufficient. However with the increase in CP generation I may need DP on both in order to keep up.

Playstyle should be much like my current cycle, except that I'll be finishing with Envenom rather than Evis. Of course, I'll still *have* Evis for low armor (or high NR) mobs. The things I'll be most sad to lose are Prep and Premed. On the other hand - Cold Blood (and Seal Fate next)...

The only thing I'm absolutely not going to give up under any circumstances is Imp. Sap - a godsend in instances so far and when grinding. I'm also speccing imp KS as I just like the idea of that kind of cross-class synergy. In instances I'll probably be sapping (and pickpocketing) at the pull if possible. Then when the tank pulls, I CS/Hemo/Hemo - 5 point KS. Then build the DP/CP stack again and Envenom/Evis depending on the type of mob. KS drops me down the damage/aggro list, of course, but I've never really cared about the peen.

I've heard all the balls talked about rogues having a lack of utility - all I can say is that the groups I'm in love the KS to slow damage on the tank, and love the 4 different spell interrupts I have (kick/gouge/blind/KS). May well change when raiding, but realistically I and my group are a long way off that.

QFT, i have removed rogues from my group when i played my warrior twink for cheapshoting on pulls, which depends on how many mobs the pull is. if its 2 then cheapshoting the 2nd one to delay the incoming to the tank to build up some aggro and then swithc to the 2nrd target can be VERY helpful

I usually ambush.

But though everything you say is right, I just don't find it a problem.

Firstly, there's loads of multiple mob pulls in TBC. Holding aggro on one yourself isn't a problem. I'm mutilate with quick recovery and ~30% dodge. Hemo builds get Ghostly, but lose QR. Offtanking an elite is simply no problem at the moment. I tend to use Crippling/Deadly - I'll CS a mob, the pyro will land, the mob starts very slowly walking towards the mage (crippled), I follow behind mutilating. I imp KS and by the time that's over it's usually dead. I feint to keep them kited towards the mage, if they are still alive. I can also pop evasion or Vanish re-CS if needs be.

I know this isn't fool proof or perfect procedure. But when you're burning through 3-4 mob pulls, there's nothing wrong with allowing the tank to pick up a couple and build aggro whilst you stun/tank/kite for the assist train. And it's fun.

Agreed with Tiiki -- I haven't been to an instance yet where CS -> Muti -> Imp KS doesn't kill most of the trash. After the Imp KS wears, if the mob still has a significant portion of hp my tank taunts. Simple as that.

I'm not enough of a numpty to do it if there's only one mob being tanked. If the tank has 2-3 on him, he's not going to be rage-starved. On a single pull like a boss fight, they're generally immune to CS anyway. In that case, you just open up with big ruptures from the start.

I just replaced a rather nice 1.5 speed mace from The Shadow Lab with this rather nice off hand sword: http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28189 and having enjoyed the way shiv seemed to work with poison procs and combat potency (as well as the mace proc which I no longer use - http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27901) I was wondering how and when it becomes viable to replace SS with Shiv. I really enjoyed spamming the hell out of shiv and appearing to do rather impressive dps in pve, coming from a pretty heavy subt pvp build its refreshing for a while...

So I guess Im wondering if using shiv as your main source of dps is viable or is that not all how it works?

Well, Qmass, lets do some math.

Sinister Strike v. Shiv
I'm using this profile as the basis of my calculations. It's a mixed bag of mostly unoptimized gear that gets us to some pretty decent numbers for a Combat Swords spec. Our salient numbers, rounded for ease of math, are 22% crit and 1232 AP.

Assumptions:
1) Shiv procs Combat Potency as a normal offhand attack would.
2) Instant Poison VII on the OH.
3) 20% damage reduction on our target.
4) 5/5 Dual Wield Spec.
5) 5/5 Combat Potency.
6) 3/3 Aggression.

SS damage: 0.8*1.06*(98 + [1232/14]*2.4 + 186.5) = 495.7
0.78*495.7 + 0.22*(495.7*2.3) ~= 637.47 average SS with crit factored in.
637.47/40 ~= 15.93 DPE

Check my math please 'cause I'm bad at it and I think I might have flubbed the crit factor in particular. (Edit: Thank you Cloak)

Shiv damage: 0.8*([1232/14]*2.4 + [0.75*100.5]) = 229.26
0.78*229.26 + 0.22*229.26*2.3 ~= 294.83 average Shiv with crit factored in.
294.83 + 170 = 464.83 average Shiv with crit and Instant Poison VII factored in.
464.83/(34 - 3) ~= 14.99 DPE

Shiv loses by a margin of 0.94 DPE for the general unbuffed Combat Rogue.

For the Combat Swords Rogue in particular we have another factor to add in: Sword Spec. Shiv is cheaper than SS, thus it's usable more often. An average white swing with our trusty [Edge of the Cosmos] is 0.8*1.22*([1232/14]*2.6 + 186.5) ~= 405.33. Each instant attack we make is worth approximately 2.5% of this value, since on average a Sword Spec proc only saves you half a swing timer. 0.025*405.33 ~= 10.13. Adding that in makes our final DPE numbers 15.32 DPE for Shiv, 16.19 DPE for SS, or a gap of 0.87 DPE. Basically, it's a small factor, but it closes a tiny bit of the scaling gap between the two skills.

Things to check/speculate on/test:
Math correct?
Poison resistance rate?
Procs -- if the MH and the OH calc their proc% separately for weapon enchants based on speed (reasonable), does Shiv really use the OH proc%? (probably) What about trinket and armor procs that are set to PPM and thus have a non-static proc%? (are there any?) Which % will Shiv use?
Anecdotal evidence that Shiv can't be dodged/parried -- true, false?

Edit: Something just occurred to me. In situations where you don't have WF, I need to tack on 20% of IP7's value (34) to the SS value. Not so useful for me since my guild is overflowing with Shaman >.>

I'm right in thinking though that windfury massively help sinister strike, seeing that it only applies to the mainhand?

I think for me SS is already greater than Shiv, I am using [Drakefist Hammer] in mainhand and [Blackout Truncheon] in offhand. I'm pretty sure the 12 dps difference in weapons makes SS better considering they are both almost optimal speeds.

What about the fact that you're bound to run out of poison mid-boss-fight with Shiv being used as a main attack?

Instant Poison, freshly applied has what, 130 charges?

You can Shiv with a fast weapon every 2 seconds. Plus autoattacks.

You're going to use up even freshly applied poison, unless I'm very much mistaken?

130 charges, 2 secs per charge = 260 seconds.
Multiply by 6/5 if assume every fifth shiv you finsih, for a very ghetto 312 secs to deplete stack.

5 mins? I can't think of all that many mobs in TBC that I'm dpsing solid for 5 mins.

Absolute pain in the ass to make sure it's always up though for every day gringing.

When running Razuvious I would apply poisons right before the pull - and be out before the boss died. Every time, unless he turned on me for a second and killed me.