33 energy for a 1.3 to a max of 49 energy. So I imagine 35 Energy for a 1.4 which seems to be a more common OH speed than the rare 1.3. Also, the Arena OH is 1.4.

They should remove that 33 minimum base IMO.

Partly, I hope they nerf +skill stuff. Its fairly retarded to have statless level 44 mail gloves be the best fury warrior gloves, and similarly how a blue off-hand (distracting) can beat out other epics in some cases.

That point aside, I was a little put off by no specific mention on surprise attacks. Perhaps it will go under some hefty changes come beta? (or I could hope...)

Well, unless I misread, Drysc said that he didn't comment on abilities that they were in the process of changing, so maybe Surprise Attacks is getting further revamps.

In raids? Other factors like 156% attack speed on two targets with SnD/BF up aside, I'd be willing to bet that Adrenaline Rush + Backstab every 5 minutes blows away a Mutilate tea combo every 5 minutes.

You also have to consider that you won't be getting the KS damage bonus on a lot of raid mobs, unless they make more and more stuff stunnable. They're getting there, but it's not a guaranteed bet.

Edit: If Thistle Tea and Renataki are allowed, then heck, you have to consider Backstab with Adrenaline Rush properly used in conjunction with Renataki and Thistle Tea, too.

I think if I was Blizzard, I'd be somewhat annoyed that combat has been the far and above preferred raiding tree for the last 2 years, and now, with the expansion talents out, it seems noone, anywhere, is even considering or talking about putting more than 31 points in combat at all. I've read discussions on a number of forums about rogue talents, and most of them don't even talk about talent builds involving anything past AR.

Hopefully Blizzard is as concerned about this as a lot of rogues are.

A question about disembowel: can you steal someone elses' DP applications? Alternatively will each rogue be alloted their OWN DP application, or is the theory that enough rogues using the poison will be able to keep a perma 5-stack up?

Previous skill read "per stack on target" not "per stack of your..." so I'd say it's a very good bet that it's a single stack affecting all Disembowels used.


Given how easy it is for one rogue to keep a 5stack on almost continually, 2 rogues with it and the addition of Shiv means it's probably going to be perma-up.

So basically disembowl becomes the PvE finisher, eviscerate the PvP one?

Or in the new longer fights, maybe 5 DPs will be more feasible?

That did seem to be the direction it was going, but now it seems that they might have Disembowel eat a poison charge, which seems a little silly.

In my head I had it that 1 rogue would keep up Deadly, and all the rogues in the raid would benefit from it by using Disembowel, with the new prospective changes mentioned (although not explained) that seems kind of impossible now.

Disembowel changed to Envenom.

25 Energy
Finishing move that consumes doses of Deadly Poison on your target, dealing instant poison damage for each dose consumed. One dose is consumed for each combo point.
1 point: 176 damage
2 points: 352 damage
3 points: 528 damage
4 points: 705 damage
5 points: 881 damage

Not sure how it applies the poison damage, will test shortly. This is rank 1, rank 2 which I need 2 more levels for does a bit more.

Okay so I misunderstood the wording. That is the exact damage it does but it's all nature damage and eats all your deadly poison charges.

Isn't it a bit stupid to base it on deadly poison, when you can have 1 deadly poison per target currently, no matter how many rogues use it?

You know, if it didn't eat the charges, I'd be all kinds of happy, since I think that's a cool idea.

I can't think of a good use for it in this form, though, and it actively counteracts Mutilate, the least-worst of our new 41 point talents.

Thanks for the info. Color me unimpressed. DP is currently a rogues best poison for sustained DPS, I'm wrestling with figuring out why we'd want to remove a full 5 stack application for one rogue to get a mediocre 5 point finisher. There has to be something we're missing - especially in light of 3K raid buffed eviscerates.

Hmm, 35.24 damage per energy for rank 1.

Evisc rank 10(if the numbers Murr posted are still accurate) is 29.6-33.11 BEFORE Attack Power and BEFORE Armor Reduction.

So the obvious questions are: What rogue talents are going to affect Envenom, and also I wonder if they'll end up allowing AP to modify its damage.

Does each rogue now have their own deadly poison debuff?
Does envenom increase base off your AP?
Does it utilize a physical or spell(poison) crit?
Will Lethality effect it?


Not very fond of it consuming charges(its nifty, dont get me wrong). Since in raids most rogues are gonna have windfury mainhand, you have to hope your offhand is going to be procing nicely for envenom attacks. Given how low you can get mob armor, not sure I'm entirely excited about envenom (there are very few ways for us to lower the nature resist rates on a mob. Hope your tank uses a TF?). Guess I'll have to see some analysis on it though before passing judgement.

Wonder if they might adjust poison talents to effect it as well? (notibly damage).

Hi.

Actually, in the thread about TBC-shamans it was stated that the windfury totem might finally have gotten the "only proccs off of white attacks" adjustment Blizzard cooked up for an earlier patch, but later removed again. So I'm guessing GoA will be a bit more attractive again. Which opens up for more poisons-proccs.

Didn't Drysc also say that they were thinking about increasing the stacking of poison charges? I might have misread, but to me it sounded a bit more like "more deadly-stacks on the mob" and less like "ok we'll give you 160 charges of deadlypoison to apply to your weapon".

Oh well, if I'm wrong don't tell me ok? This dream has pink and fluffy skies.

Hrm, I must have misread what Drsyc wrote in regards to the poison.

Being an alliance nub, GoA is what, 100 ish agility? Proc rate on Windfurry is 20%? I still think the later is probably gonna be better dps, even as GoA scales with more ranks. The 'procing off yellow' mostly is a warrior nerf, so they cant spam hamstring.

Windfury is nice, but won't be that nice if you're only proccing it off of white mainhand-attacks.

GoA right now is, hmm, 88 agi talented? Will definitly be more in exp. But windfury will scale as well.
More crit from GoA, and poisons on top of that...

I guess GoA will be worth a bit more for seal-fate rogues as well.

Oh yeah, and do you think the dual-wielding shaman with windfury-weapon is going to prefer GoA or WF-totem? :)

You know how hard is it to get GoA-groups currently? Every warrior wants WF, and it's hard to say no, cause then they'll just not battleshout, and it's a downward spiral :)

I'm so looking forward to that day...

So they're giving us a new (talented, admittedly) CP generator that requires poisons to be effective, and a new finisher that... removes all the poisons on the target.

...

:blink:

Umm this poison stack consumation of envenom sounds totally lame...

Say hordes only poisons offhand, say you need 15 secs to build another 5pt stack.

Then envenom damage becomes 800 minus the dmg a rising upto 5pt stack would do for 15 secs... and yea, can also subtract 3k dmg from the 5pt evisc you just lost, it does consume combopoints?

Whoop de doo.... an attack that does -4k dmg!

Btw im assuming that my assumptions are wrong... somewhere... so feel free to correct me, firm but gently!