Ranged Weapon Spec is pretty awesome, I don't know what you're talking about. My Multishots would be critting for 100 less damage with out it. :<

He's talking about Combat Experience.

Do we know for a fact that with SA any attack that would be dodged but isn't can't crit?

As i said, in theory you will lose dps and i know that, but im talking practice. It happend alot to me that i got 1-2 backstabs dodged on maexxna which lead to me losing the SnD cycle because i lost several seconds, or just lacked 1 tick of energy in the end (which forced me to SS instead to get my 5 snd cycle ready). Same with twins, i normally try to use as much energy as possible and sometimes that very last backstab that you want to land gets dodged and you end up with 51 unused energy and no time to reapply it.

I do *not* say that without dodges you will do more dps on paper, all i say is that in raids, it will prove to be a good *tool*. Or maybe i'm just a fan of consistence.

Btw. i'm not sure but i think dodged backstabs cost 9 energy. Also you should change the 2.3 lethality modifier to 2.24. (not a big difference but it closes the gap a tiny bit.)

We can't know it for a fact, but it's our best guess. We know that the attack table in WoW is atomic, meaning that you only get one roll per attack. For Surprise Attacks to not affect damage output, then it would need to take the crit:hit ratio and assign equal parts of the Dodge slice to the crit and hit portions. The fact that the devs elected to just add a flat damage modifier to it after rogues complained is a pretty good indicator that it just turns dodges into hits.

Change Surprise attacks into a cool 'form' ability.

Discuss.

"DAGGERFORM: MAKES U SHOOT DAGGERZ"

I'd take a purely cosmetic form over Surprise Attacks, it's still too boring.

IMO, they need to move Opprotunity to combat to allow Mutilate builds to be able to spec 41/20 and get both Opp and DW

Underpowered unless it comes with a dagger shotgun and dagger rocket launcher.

And a dagger sniper rifle.

That can one-shot hunters.

From 200 yards.

And then mark their corpse.

Deadly Throw is still on the spell list, I don't see that ability being removed, it is quite nice to have a decent ranged attack (and a ranged silence when you get the PvP gloves).

So every white attack crits and you get 140 energy on specials that are garuntee to crit 10 seconds after the activation?

That sounds fucking TERRIBLE except in a sustained DPS fight.

I wouldn't be against some like

"rogue cleave"

Basically a 40 energy attack that hits 2 nearby opponents with a combo point.

Have its damage range under SS for one target, over for 2 type thing. So terrible unoriginal, but damn, I wouldn't mind it.

That or maybe make surprise attack into a low energy, high damage (whether crit or just naturally high), non-combo point generating ability that lights up after a mob dodges (or parry?) your attack.

Just spiting out ideas =/

Recklessness on a 3 minute cooldown = lol. Overpowered when used with Adrenaline Rush and Blade Flurry.

Ala http://blue.cardplace.com/newcache/us/34986074.htm

So ... maybe they see it (or are at least looking for it).

Honestly, they need to move sinister calling to combat. It doesn't fit well with the sub tree (no matter what people say, it's the main PvP sword/mace/fist build) considering the arena gear still doesn't have any agi on it.

It's not a bad talent, it's just out of place.

It wasn't before? =p

Instead of that I'd honestly prefer something that has synergy with hemo or whatever. Maybe I'm just crazy though.

Sub isn't supposed to be about sustained DPS anyway. As a BC hemo rogue all I can get is 2/5 Sinister Calling before I lose Cold Blood. It needs to be moved.

Ok, i'll inject my idea for 41pt combat talent. Maybe a little less cracked out than some seen here.


Dark Efficiency

Chance on any melee hit (5%) to proc a buff on the rogue. Reduces energy cost of Sinister Strike, Backstab, Eviscerate, Rupture, Slice and Dice by 10. 10 second duration.



The idea is to increase the efficiency of combat rogue energy usage, AND when coupled with the new combat potency, create a highly variable energy environment. No more monotonous cycles.

For tweaks, could reduce SS, Backstab energy cost by 20%, for imp SS with 8, backstab with 12. Ideally these would be balanced between the two choices, taking into account the different strike speeds of daggers and swords, and the different strike frequency of SS vs Backstab, and how valuable they are for damage. Possibly as much as a 15 second duration. If you up the duration too much, it become effectively a passive buff, which isn't the point and would likely be overpowered. Similarly, I'd imagine if you upped the proc chance, with things like SnD active, you also get a similar effect.


Or maybe you could just say, 10% chance on melee hit, -10 energy cost from your next ability.




Anyway, there's an idea for you rogues to chew on, maybe it's a little more interesting to you guys than SA, and perhaps a little more realistic to hope for?

Arena gear for Rogues all have agility on it. At first it was all AP, but it changed about a month ago to combining AP/agility.l

The sinister calling is there to encourage people to spec Sub (Blizzard wants all three trees to be good).

Indeed, it always suprises me when people say 'Oh but talent X should be in this tree' where it would be hideously overpowered.

Blizzard have been very specifically putting PvP and PvE abilities in all 3 of all the classes trees, and also trying to make each one independently raid viable.

To be honest, I don't think they've quite succeeded yet with full Sub. I play 21/0/30 at the moment and would love to go 20/0/41 (and probably will try it) but Cold Blood is an awesome PvP ability that's a big big loss. Maybe the best single talent point outside of Prep in the whole set of trees.

Having said that, new deep sub does look great.

- 10% AP + 15% agi isn't bad at all.
- 30% chance to avoid killing blows (or 15% AoE avoidance, your choice...)
- Iceblock... except you can move around and kill people with it up. And it has a 2min CD and is synergystic with Setup
- 10% extra damage (white+yellow) for 6 seconds out of stealth. With a 3.5 min Vanish and Prep, and Cloak->Vanish=guaranteed stealth, you can be in stealth a lot of the time... plus re-stealthing in PvP is pretty easy.
- Getting kited? Vanish+Premed = 2 CPs on target at range... then -> deadly throw. In fact, being able to add 2CPs on a 2min CD anytime you're stealthed is generally a very nice talent, IMO, for Arena play.
- Cloak+Vanish+Sprint means you never need die in world PvP, EVER.
- Prep will reset: Premed, Cloak, Vanish, Sprint, Evasion...

My build would actually probably be something like:
18/0/43 - only really misses Imp Gouge. And Imp SnD I guess ;)

Compare that to a 41/15/5 Mutilate/Poisons Synergies/Seal Fate build.

They play COMPLETELY differently, and I think that's a great thing. One has about triple the CPs of the other, but is MUCH less survivable. Also, my current Hemo build is 'up there' on Raid DPS- comfortably 10%+ behind the best combat daggers, but good enough. If a 41pt Subt build is 'good enough' for raiding too... I'll be a very happy bunny.

My only real critisicm is that:

1) You can't realistically sink more than 43 pts into Sub (so much good survivability stuff at the bottom) because of the Assassination 'required' talents.

2) You simply CANNOT get all the 'required' dagger talents for the equivalent of the old 21/8/22 build. Once you waste the points in Imp SS and go down to Imp BS, you lose full Lethality- which is livable with, sure, but then you're in the zone of VERY slow CP generation AND not that great BS damage. Though- Ambush+Backstabs out of stealth with the 6 sec buff will be nice.... then again, is Imp Ambush EVER worth it in the new high stam world? I'm not convinced.

Removing all debuffs really is a VERY powerful ability.

Incidentally, if I'm wrong, and Cloak Of Shadows ignores things like physical debuffs (e.g. Rend) then i'll be very upset!