Who cares how the rogue looks when AR is up? You can't move while stunned anyway! :D

Does the 41 point subtlety talent also have a noticeable animation?

Not sure I'd want a group buff unless they stacked with other rogues. Which would actually be kinda a nice touch, since in a raid setting it's always 2-3 rogues + warrior + shaman, we practically roam in packs. If it didn't stack I wouldn't want to be the odd man out with having 1-2 of your rogues spec in it so others could grab other dps talents with that phat 1 point.

It looks like priest shadow form.

Flourish, i think it was called.

Replace Surprise Attacks with:

Advantage
40 Energy
3 Minute Cooldown
Duration: 15 Seconds

Gives all party members a 5% chance to gain an additional melee attack. (Attacks gained cannot proc Sword Spec or WF).

Alacrity would be an awesome talent btw Faytte :)

Is Ming permanently specced this?

I still want my Unmitigated Strikes idea used :(

Does anyone know whether daze will work on raid bosses?

And would you value Combat Potency higher than Relentless Strikes for swords?

Provided a fast offhand (as Iblis) with 1.6 speed, SnD up and 12% miss vs lvl63 you'll get about 1.3 Energy/s with 5/5 combat potency. Which is slightly better than Relentless Strike(68 vs 65 Energy regained in 52s), thus being enough to keep up a standard 3/5/5 cycle. On the other hand, 65 Energy (1.63 SS) do more damage than Combat Potency (~.95 SS worth of damage as bonus + 0.1 as SS as you get no penalty for dodged abilities.).

Phantom Blades
41 pt combat
Your attacks and offensive abilities have a 10% chance to bypass your enemies armor and damage shields.

I've had Blade Twisting since they updated the talents, and I very, VERY rarely see it on mobs, let alone on bosses. Without any addons to track it its rather difficult to measure overall effect, but I find it very hard to believe it's working anywhere near the 20% it claims in the tooltip.

Random thought: Change fist spec to "Reduces the energy cost of Sinister Strike based on weapon speed."

Anyway, does anyone know if TBC monsters have Resilience?

I don't know about everyone else, but 10% 20% roll the dice talents are annoying to me. Phantom Blades sounds like a very good fit for Combat, but I'd rather have a 5 minute cooldown I could be sure of.

Phantom Blades
41 pt combat
5 minute cooldown.
All your attacks for the next 20 seconds are not affected by armor/damage shields/other damage reducers

Wraith
41 pt combat
5 minute cooldown
All your attacks for the next 20 seconds are unaffected by armor, damage mitigation or immunity effects. In addition your attacks heal you for 5% of damage dealt.

From what I understand, it doesn't BREAK any CC. It does prevent it with a 90% effectiveness though.

Last i heard, CoS on the current beta push doesn't even remove DoTs (ie, it's completely utterly broken compared to what the tooltip states).

Quick offtopic roguely raiding question, does the 4 piece Bonescythe restore energy when Mutilate crits?

No

and full DD does not effect envenom either.

Hmm, has anyone pointed this out on the beta boards? Seems like an oversight to me, in regards mostly to the Bonescythe as the DD bonus is kind of a more 1 flavor bonus but the t3 bonus looks to encompass all instant strikes meant for damage.

there is a thread about it in the beta boards already.

I dont know what i'd want, but i know what I dont want in combat 41 pt. I dont want another timer-based ability that a polymorph or fear will completely negate, or a hammer of justice partially negate (evasion, blade flurry, adrenaline rush, etc.). Furthermore, lasting through damage is not my main concern. I want to deal more damage. If i wanted to live longer, I'd be in the subtelty tree. So, combat as the wanna-be-dps-warrior tree should have an offensive 41pt in-your-face talent as its defining ability, much like AR has been up through the current patch.

Now, since we mostly all agree that surprise attacks, while more damage, is boring, this leaves us with a couple options...

1) another passive proc ability that isn't surprise-attacks style boring. The new energy regen talent is somewhat like this.
2) a passive proc that needs to be activated once proc'd ( conflag, warlock's nightfall )
3) an active DD ability that is instant - a la cold blood, shiv, stormstrike
4) an active non-DD ability that is either instant or has a casting time - totem, pets, premed are examples
5) an aoe ability

just thinking about versatility, yet maintaining the offensive nature of the combat tree, i think the following ability would be cool for both pvp and pve, and would not overpowered.

Push Pull
41 pt combat
3 minute cooldown
Self-dispellable. Grants the rogue an ethereal buffer which will redirect one harmful spell cast on the rogue to itself, destroying the buffer in the process. If dispelled or not absorbed within 10 seconds, the rogue's current target within 10 yards will suffer damage equal to the rogue's attack power. If no such target exists, the spell fades harmlessly.


basically, it's a one-use self-cast grounding totem that can be used for defense while in pvp, or offense at any time. Gives some versatility to the combat tree, helps with our anti-kiting issues, or could be a flat 1% dps increase skill (or thereabouts). It also doesnt tread too much on the cloak of shadows territory, as that talent affects a lot more at once than this does.

I'd still like an ability like this:

Multiplicity
70 energy
3 or 5 minute cooldown

In a flash of smoke you clone yourself for 12 seconds. Upon use of the ability the enemy loses target. Clone has 500hp and auto-attacks the targeted enemy for 12 seconds or until dead. Use breaks snares (ala imp sprint). Clone Has a pve component of a complete threat wipe.


Since we don't get a pet... we make one 12 seconds at a time.

No, it's pretty horrible. PvE dodge rates are generally very low (appx 5%). Avoid anything that requires the target to dodge if you want rogues to like it in PvE. Talents centered around making contact (like Combat Potency or Find Weakness) or critting (Seal Fate or BS 4 piece bonus) are more in line with what a rogue will consider *good* from a PvE perspective.

I'll say it again - Assassination has a strike talent. So does subtlety. Combat doesn't.

That's like a shitty reversal of what Suprise Attacks already is, and unless it was some huge energy amount would be realtively worthless in PvE.