What would be cool with Anesthetic is if it put a 3second debuff (to give people with lag a chance) that made the moves done in that three seconds to be 0 threat. Now that would be something that would be handy.

Completely agree. this new version is essentially a gimped instant poison. Why would you ever use it? Unless of course theres a gimmick mob that has hugely fickle agro and is massively vunerable to poisons, wouldnt shock me much at this point.

I asked before and i think it got overlooked, but has anyone heard ANYTHING about the BS bonuses being changed to include muti? :(

I can really see the warriors loving that =), just comming up to a tank switch... Poison procs, Warrior taunts... Taunt fails because of the poison! yay!

Face it, rogues are not going to be needed to boost a raids DPS/utility. We are needed because given everyone ELSES DPS boosting abilities, we can do some decent damage when stacked with em =) and tbh, I am fine with that!

Well, the new version of Wound Poison gives us a nice bit of utility, even if it's utility that's shared with MS warriors - although with the reduction in raid sizes, having an MS warrior can't be guaranteed (hell, we've had to have people log on an alt for Ebonroc even with something ridiculous like 7 warriors in a raid right now, because all our warriors were prot or fury...), while a rogue having Wound Poison can be.

Hey, at least they filled out their profile.

If you mean Imp. BS affecting Mutilate as well, I'd be seriously shocked if something like that was put through as it always struck me that the only thing balancing Mutilate vs. Backstab was the reduced crit chance. When your Mutilate crits are punching upwards of 1800 total, 30% additional crit would be slightly crazy. Not that I would complain, but can't see it happening.

As for Anaesthetic poison...not exactly rocket science to see that ~150 damage at 0 threat is far less useful than reducing overall threat by 500.

I meant our moves.. As far as I can tell, the best that they're doing to give rogues utility are a single talent in each tree -- combat can daze, assassination can Find Weakness, subtlety can do hemo ..

I was just thinking of a poison for -us- ;)

I think he is reffering to the bonescythe gear. Mutilate is not listed in any of the special moves bonuses.

Does anyone have the ability to do a DPS comparison of 41/7/3 and 8/41/2?

Let's say 1100AP, Maexxnas Fang/Pugio, 33% Crit.

Find Weakness is a buff on the rogue increasing his yellow damage (only) by 10%- not a debuff on the mob...

I must've been thinking about Imp. Kidney's affect, then. I just remember Assassination getting something semi-useful for helping damage.. I was silly to think it was from something usable in a raid environment ;)

Doh, makes a lot more sense now.

Yeah that's really bad. So ACLG gives .4% extra crit against raid bosses at 60(since ACLG are 4 skill after the patch instead of 5). Weapon Expertise gives .5%, no thanks there.

Nothing interestin in the patch notes for Rogues, just the same weapon skill change (at least dagger Rogues can vendor their ACLG).

What if it was 0.1% per skill rating, that would be decent right?

At this point, it might as well be:

"1 weapon skill = 100 Ravenholdt reputation"

Yeah, sorry, i did mean the 4 and 8 piece Bonescythe bonuses in particular. Was really looking forward to getting some decent evis, crit muti(for 55 energy), 4/5 point evis, crit muti strings going. But seems they've forgotten :(

Ok, I'm putting together my 51-point build for today, and something struck me:

I think Surprise Attacks outweighs Lethality, going with the 10% damage boost.

Assume an average SS of 500, and a 28% crit rate.

5/5 Lethality averages you 500 damage non-crit, 1150 crit, 682 average damage per SS.
0/5 Lethality/1/1 Surprise Attacks averages you 550 damage non-crit, 1100 damage crit, 704 average damage per SS.

On top of that, no more dodged eviscerates, saving major energy for non-dagger combat rogues.

Anyone see a hole in my math?

One/two-roll systems aren't a factor, as the SS isn't affected by the no-dodge component anymore.

Posting this again as it got lost on the page jump and as the two havent been directly compared with the new tree changes it would be something that I think alot of people could use.

Can someone do DPS comparison of 41/7/3 and 8/41/2?

Let's say 1100AP, Maexxnas Fang/Pugio, 33% Crit, mob is poisoned.

Oddly enough with my gear and weapon selections, 21/0/30 hemo build outperforms combat daggers(any talent combination, even if I had Maexxna's mainhand instead). 11/0/40 outperforms it as well, and creeps up closer and closer to 21/0/30 with raid buffs. So I think I'll be going the hemo route until TBC and grind out a GM sword for mainhand instead of AQR.

How does 11/40/0 compare in your figures, and mind if I snag a look at a CTProfile? I've been having difficulty parsing anything out to higher DPS than traditional CD, though the gap between my beloved combat sword and CD did indeed narrow. I'd just started reconsidering from 11/40 to X/X/40, but hadn't done the math on Hemo builds yet.

Also, is this with SnD still in the ass. tree, or with it being moved to combat?

Zandig, wish we knew. Blizz has update the talent trees for live, but they show the old tbc tree's, so we do not know what to expect.