• Nemesis

just a thought on the side, it's kinda impossible for blizzard to give -every- class multiple roles and special utility stuff, theres only so much different things to do in a raid.

 

• Playered

Indeed, perhaps Blizzard should provide a "Tranq Strike" book drop somewhere... so Rogues could share the exciting roll of disrupting those enraged doggies or drakes that infest... every instance... with the Hunters :)

Ofcourse if that happened there would be mixed responce from Hunters... and Rogues... but atleast there would be less reason to bring a Sup-Par DPS class with little or no use in raids except one boss which requires you to waste 3 raid slots to beat :(

 

red

I hope you guys are being facetious about giving the rogue some other non-damage job. Having only to worry about dps and being good at it is the whole reason I enjoy the class. If we got a "Tranquilizing Strike" skill I would quit. I feel the same way about a "tanking rogue" build. The whole idea is nearly offensive to me.

You know hunters hate tranq right? And only being brought to a fight for some gimmick reason doesn't exactly make you feel good.

 

Tiiki

Try speccing x/x/30? ;)

I'm 23/3/25 with an AQR, and ~920AP unbuffed. I keep up with the other rogues currently- Combat Daggers beat me, but I'm up with all the other specs. And it's a much elss than 20% difference !

Just make sure you lay on those Ruptures. They do tons with Serrated Blades, far better than a non-CB EV, most of the time. And Ghostly Strike whenever it's cooled down. It's damn efficient with a big weapon.

 

Mem

I feel that if the published taltents will be released as they are, very many rogues will rather strengthen their secondary talent tree than go further down in the combat tree. Only the sub tree really looks intriguing...but for pvp only though I can imagine that stun and CC roles will become more important in smaller instances (take ZG for example where quite a lot of mobs can be disoriented).

 

Tiiki

Correct. I do feel that mutilate and suprise attacks MUST be placeholders though. Compare them to the class/role defining talents other classes are getting at 41 pts.

However, though I like the Sub tree now- the fact you can't go 41pt Subt with daggers - you can't get Lethality/Imp BS fully and get 41pts in Sub (let alone the 16 in Assassination problem for all builds) - really sucks.

It seems to me like the most efficient 41pt subt builds HAVE to be Hemo (from a min-max perspective). Which really sucks, IMO. Full dagger Subtlety should be a staple rogue build, imo.

 

• Nemesis

Obviously you realize not everyone has to agree with you red :p
Pretty sure alot of people have been doing that whole damage dealing stuff for so long now they wouldn't mind a change, even if it's just some odd raid utility job thingie that gets boring after a while :)

 

Shaine

Well, Mutilate sounds still sexy for me (i'm a 31/13/5 rogue atm). With the new posion mechanics it can be a very nice skill. I wonder if Disembowel will use up the deadly poison stacks form the target.

 

Tiiki

It's already horribly underpowered, so I hope not!

Rank 2 Disembowl vs Rank 10 Eviscerate is currently about 100 dmg different. So either it scales insanely with AP AND is affected by talents... or it's useless. Eviscerate with Imp Eviscerate is currently strictly better than Disembowl, assuming equal AP scaling.

 

Shaine

If you take that none of the new skills have talents to make them better... so i guess some of the recently announced talents will change a bit.

Its hard to start putting points into the assa tree if i'd like to skip imp evis, snd and lethality.

 

◊ Kalman

a) Deadliness.
b) Are you using an AQR or GM weapons? 2.8 speed, it's doable. 2.6 speed, I don't think it is.
c) What finisher rotation are you using?

Hemo *can* keep up, given the right conditions. Without those conditions, it won't.

 

henaki

I don't understand why people dislike mutilate, it's basically there to give Dagger Rogues insane CP generation, that better of a Sword Rogue. The entire Assassination tree is pretty intertwined within itself, large amounts of poison generation, which in turn creates more opportunity for Mutilate to crit, with Seal Fate, will generate combo points extremely quickly, which in turns keeps Find Weakness up. I dare say its the best designed tree in the game now, with the exception of Vigor, which makes no goddamned sense. It's one of the few trees where almost all of the talents work with each other to increase their value. There are maybe 2 or 3 talents without inter-tree synergy.

Mutilate is an option, and a good one at that. Suprise Attacks however, is obviously trash and I'd love to see it get changed immediately.

Gur - Level 64 Undead Warlock on Hellfire

 

Shaine

/agree :)

 

Faytte

Would be great to see mutilate builds actually be competitive in the expansion. This build looks fun

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...00000000000000

The lack of offhand/daggerspec/weapon expertise makes me quesy though.

Farewell, remorse: all good to me is lost; Evil, be thou my good.
~Paradise Lost (bk. IX, l. 171)

 

henaki

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...00000000000000

No Imp Backstab? Urrrrrrrrrrrrffffffff

or

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...00000000000000

I kind of wish there was an Imp Rupture talent in Assassination, because I use that way more than Eviscerate.

I'm kind of debating either heavy Sub or heavy Assassination, both seem very appealing to me in different ways, but I'd stick with Combat if they took my idea for a 41 point talent, because with a good weapon set you would be a comparitive monster in PvP compared to now, considering your shitty matchups would almost go out the window. I'm enjoying the majority of talents and how they work together (and theres good reason for that, considering we were the last class to get reviewed), every tree now seems to have a raiding and PvP purpose, however I might be getting an "ooh shiny" kind of viewpoint right now, considering no one has really crunched numbers hardcore to determine the best DPS spec.

Gur - Level 64 Undead Warlock on Hellfire

 

Faytte

In the build I was assuming that, due to other talent revisions (oppurtunity/lethality, yadda yadda) mutilate (with its extra cp) would be similar to backstab ergo not spending the 3 points in imp bs. I guess it would leave you up a creek without a paddle on a poison immune mob though.

Again, just wishful thinking at this point.

Farewell, remorse: all good to me is lost; Evil, be thou my good.
~Paradise Lost (bk. IX, l. 171)

 

• frmorrison

Did someone do some calculations to compare the difference between Mutilate and Backstab?
Opportunity and imp backstab makes Mutilate seem to be a little weake.
So when you want another CP, you would use Mutilate? Otherwise, still use backstab.


Combat needs a better 41 point talent, what happened to Shadow Strikes?

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Faytte

I ran assuming that oppurtunity and lethality would both effect it. Frankly I couldnt see them not effecting mutilate.

Farewell, remorse: all good to me is lost; Evil, be thou my good.
~Paradise Lost (bk. IX, l. 171)

 

• frmorrison

Maybe Lethality will affect it, which may help out the difference, but Opp is only for attacks from behind (Mutilate works in the front from the text).

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Tiiki

No it doesn't.

 

Faytte

You may want to re read mutilate :)

(hint: last line)

Farewell, remorse: all good to me is lost; Evil, be thou my good.
~Paradise Lost (bk. IX, l. 171)

 

Lousifer

On the initial leak, I was so excited about Mutilate, giving Dagger rogues a trainable skill that let us hit from the front for fights where you can't get behind mobs... The previewed version of it is so meh, especially since it doesn't get buffed by Opportunity and Lethality.. which I think may be the best argument for these talents being placeholders.

I'll stick with the wishful thinking that rogues are actually getting the originally leaked 41-point talents and combat rogues will get Shadow Strikes. Without it, I'm currently looking at 29/27/5 for delicious Seal Fate goodness.

 

Mist

I think we're looking at
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...00000000000000
For PvE Daggers

And

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...00000000000000
For PvE Swords

A little disappointing the lack of new talents, but I think the DPS on these builds will still be overall good.

 

Faytte

Why 1 WE and 5/5 SF?

Wouldnt 2 WE and 4/5 SF be better? I admitedly did the same thing at first but I believe someone else here corrected me. Are we assuming BC content will have more + skill as a whole?

Farewell, remorse: all good to me is lost; Evil, be thou my good.
~Paradise Lost (bk. IX, l. 171)

 

Shaine

Some quick maths about mutilate (first time calcing something like this, there can be errors)
MH: Kingsfall, OH: Death's Sting and an AP of 1200

without dual wield min/max normal hit: 383/461
crit: 767/922

with dual wield min/max normal hit: 440/535
crit: 892/1072

I'll try to make a spreadsheet about actual dps.