imp snd + mutilate is what makes the differenz of "hey i just squeeze in a nother finisher" and "k, i wait for 90 energy and fire snd for getting most out of exp weakness"
However, the combat tree gets you Imp S&D. I'm curious as to how important that will be situationally in BC.
Yep, I totally forgot about that switch when I was looking into this. Although, from how it appears to me, imp SND makes the least difference on a mutilate build, out of all of the potentially viable raid builds.
I was in love with 43/0/18 before the SnD change. That repositioning really killed it for me though.
I agree with this sentiment but as has been shown in 2.0, mutilate is an awesome PvE and PvP hybrid build and maybe without the switch of imp SnD its just too good?
Then again, you can still go 41/20 in BC but that does lose you some of the better PvP gems in the sub tree.
Note that the one saving this combatlog was using SwStats, which modifies the combatlog, so I'm not 100% sure if this is correct (but 99.9%).
Also as Mutilate is an attack with both hands, but for misses/dodges it only shows once in the log, I simply multiply those miss/dodge by 2. If your total Mutilate number is 96, you actually only pressed 48 times on that button.
As for poisons, you cannot find out the proc rate for Deadly, since there is no log message for a successful proc (besides "Patchwerk is afflicted by Deadly Poison (x)"), but you can for Instant.
Your proc rate over *all* attacs, including misses and Mutilates (but not Eviscerate, since it isn't supposed to proc offhand poisons) was 80/261 = 37%.
Anyone else noticing a lack of Combat Potency procs on bosses?
pf's spreadsheets shows that Combat Potency + Relentless Strikes SHOULD be getting a 5/5 SnD/evis cycle on average.
In actuality, though, I've barely been getting 4 combo points right as my SnD wears off. Sometimes I still only get 3.
Hell, even without Combat Potency, I can sometimes get 4 combo points anyways due to 4 piece bonescythe bonus.
Does Combat Potency not proc when the offhand misses, gets dodged, parried, blocked, or even GLANCED?
Maybe its just really, really bad luck... but I dont want to believe Combat Potency is this bad.
Spending 50 gold to respec sucks >_>
does blizzard plan on adding combat potency procs to the combat log reporting? i think we would all feel better about the build if we could actually see the energy gains. i noticed it on loatheb last week, but it would still be nice to see it.
does blizzard plan on adding combat potency procs to the combat log reporting? i think we would all feel better about the build if we could actually see the energy gains. i noticed it on loatheb last week, but it would still be nice to see it.
It agrees with our WWS parse except on poisons, where you provide slightly higher numbers than WWS. WWS appears to not count the partially resisted damage into the total (judging from it showing 90 DPV ticks and 58 IPVI hits, and the numbers for non-resisted matching WWS's totals).
However, if *with* Master Poisoner, I'm still seeing 16-17% full resists, I have to question if the talent is working properly, or worth taking.
Melador> Incidentally, these last few pages are why people hate lawyers.
Viator> I really don't want to go all Kalman here.
Bury> Just imagine what the world would be like if you used your powers for good.
Aditionally, fully resisted poisons do not count as a proc, i.e. it won't substract a charge from your weapon. http://sp00n.pytalhost.com/misc/surprise_pw.htm
126 procs, Instant has only 115.
I have only 10% resisted though with Master Poisoner (13 just like you, but with more procs). Deadly wasn't resisted as often, but more than yours.
Ive gotten a HWL dagger and been mutilate and quite enjoying it, grinded a bit and found mutilate pretty good for solo/pve/grind and I havnt read too much that makes me worry about leveling mutilate in tbc. What im wondering is ongoing, to maintain as much fluidity as I can with builds what is the next weapon I should be going for...
Ive been considering the fist or mace for my next HWL weapon purchase because I wouldnt mind finishing my grind with something that isnt a dagger build since ive been daggers since getting to 60 a few months ago and grinding PVP ever since. Ive liked hemo in the past and would probably be speccing hemo as soon as I get a new weapon but I want to leave as many doors open in getting a weapon... so the things ive been wondering are
Whether fist spec needs just the MH a fist to get the 5% crit and whether the grind to get 2 HWL swords is worth the beenfit of sword spec for leveling over fist or if mace spec would make world pvp while leveling up any better. I guess along with that whether hemo is a viable spec to level with and maintain some strong pvp control similarily with mutilate if its strong enough leveling solo pve to make the added PVP ability worth it.
Any other considerations people could offer to help my decision would be greatly appreciated. I dont really know much about combat, especially in pvp so everything helps.
Fist spec gives you the +crit to whatever hand you have fists in. SO if you MH a fist, your MH attacks get +5%. Hence only worth bothering with if you MH or both MH/OH Fists.
Combat Swords/Fists/Maces I'd say were pretty much the worst possible rogue line up for PvP. That's not to say they're bad or unworkable, just every other build is better. It lacks the burst of daggers (AR every few minutes does not compare), the combo points of SF and the contol of Hemo.
On the other hand, it's one of the best specs to level with. Hemo isn't bad and 1 vs. 1 it burns mobs down almost as fast as combat, but lack of BF/AR combo means it can't wtfpwn clustered mobs as quick.
As currently Hemo with AQR/FoF the 'what HWL weapon do I choose' dilema is one I'm facing too.
In the end I've decided Maces.
For the foreseable future it makes little difference as I'll stay Hemo.
Further down the line, I'm looking to pick up a MSA as soon as it drops, and MSA/HWL Mace combo seems fine for a combat mace build.
After running arround at TBC beta and playing arround with combat builds
I first started out wo using either Combat Potency or Suprise attacks
and focused asssasination tree after getting Adrenalin rush and Vitality.
I got quite suprised however after switching to combat potency and SA,
simply because It was quite the dps gain on trashmobs.
I cant say how it worked out in numbers however since most of my UIs aint working as wanted.
What I did notice on the other hand was that SCT shows procs of combat potency,
and it actualy happens fairly often considering my 2.6 speed mace in offhand (yeh I know).
The one thing that annoys me the most however is that Suprise attack doesnt help at all in beta.
It might give me the dps increase, but Ive seen quite some time a finisher of a 5 PT evis being dodged.
Should have taken screenshots of it but I was to busy with sitting on the floor crying to actualy make a shot of it.
As it stands now I actualy like quick recovery more the suprise attacks.
The feeling Im sitting with now is that those times Evis should be dodged but it actualy works,
it turns out its getting parried (Ive gotten alot more parries in beta then live,
all though Im not grinding all that mutch on live, but rather standing behind them thus.....).
At least quick recovery works on all unsucessfull attempts, not only dodge. (and the healing will be missed alot in raiding).
As far as picking up HWL swords/fists/maces, for a combat spec with Combat Potency you'll favor swords, seeing as it's the only set with a faster offhand than 2.9 speed. All of the MH are interchangble if you choose to go Hemo, but swords are the only one with an optimal OH.
The difference between leveling in TBC with Hemo or Combat was pretty well explained previously. You burn down solo mobs just as fast, if not faster with Hemo, but you can take on groups with combat due to BF/AR. Hemo makes some quests easier to solo due to MoD and Imp Sap, Combat can brute-force down some elites better.
As far as picking up HWL swords/fists/maces, for a combat spec with Combat Potency you'll favor swords, seeing as it's the only set with a faster offhand than 2.9 speed. All of the MH are interchangble if you choose to go Hemo, but swords are the only one with an optimal OH.
True - but decent Hemo offhands are ten a penny if you're Naxx raiding. There's plenty of other daggers/swords/maces (er, okay only one fist) that can fill that slot just as well as a HWL quickblade. I'd say if you're a regular raider you're likely to se a decent off hand faster from raiding than pvping.
On the other hand, not everyone raids. If HWL gear is your only route to that level of weapon, then yes Swords are clearly superior due to Quickblade.
I see a lot of people using 46/0/5 Mutilate builds(myself included) right now on live and I really like the build but I intend to level with daggers because mashing ss puts me to sleep so I am wondering what the best Mutilate build is for leveling. My thoughts are to start 41/0/10 with imp sap and work my way towards Initiative and Serrated Blades as I level. Then most likely go with the 41/20 build at 70. Think this is a decent plan? Also with only 41 points in ass how do you spend them? I find my self wanting Fleet Footed, Quick Recovery and Imp Kindey shot which leaves me short of the points I would like in deadened nerves and vile poisons aswell as with 2/3 in either imp evis or ruthlessness. Just curious how you guys are gonna spend your points with so many nice talents and not enough points to go around.
One note of interest that I've found, which might actually be a nice boost for leveling, is that quick recovery will proc off of a blocked attack. So if you evi, and the mob blocks it for ~100 lost damage, you still get the rest of the damage and you get 28 energy back. I think relentless strikes might not proc off of it though, I can't remember because its been a while since I was mutilate. Have to do some testing.
You can get combined QR/RS procs on a blocked finisher, yes.
Melador> Incidentally, these last few pages are why people hate lawyers.
Viator> I really don't want to go all Kalman here.
Bury> Just imagine what the world would be like if you used your powers for good.
One note of interest that I've found, which might actually be a nice boost for leveling, is that quick recovery will proc off of a blocked attack. So if you evi, and the mob blocks it for ~100 lost damage, you still get the rest of the damage and you get 28 energy back. I think relentless strikes might not proc off of it though, I can't remember because its been a while since I was mutilate. Have to do some testing.
It's not uncommon to see +25 +28 scrolling up in SCT on an Eviscerate, actually netting you some energy. What is even more interesting is that a Kidney Shot can get you a 20 energy refund even if it actually hits, Eviscerate atleast loses some damage when it's blocked where as Kidney Shot is unaffected. This has to be a bugged implementation even if getting +25 +20 back when stunning someone is very nice.
Kidney shot still uses the same hit table as kick, gouge, etc. Meaning that you can block a kidney shot, which is likely when you see this occur. Since kidney shot deals no damage though and is simply an effect, there is no damage for it to mitigate, so maybe thats why it doesnt appear in the combat logs.
Just a thought.
Farewell, remorse: all good to me is lost; Evil, be thou my good.
~Paradise Lost (bk. IX, l. 171)
Well, Im going to bite the bullet and respec mut. Ive tried a 32/14/5 seal fate dagger build for a couple days, since I hit 8/9 t3, and its fun, but I need something a bit more pve viable. I was 15/31/5 on our kt attempt last night(14% was our best) so I want to remain at minimum competetive in pve. Im picking up a hw dirk atm, and have mats for crus.
What builds are people finding to work the best pve wise?
Melador> Incidentally, these last few pages are why people hate lawyers.
Viator> I really don't want to go all Kalman here.
Bury> Just imagine what the world would be like if you used your powers for good.
12/16/06, 10:44 PM
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