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01/04/07, 1:17 PM
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#751
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Piston Honda
Blood Elf Paladin
Mug'thol
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Once the FT bug is fixed, I feel that slow/slow WF/WF is the way to go. Even with dual HWL with WF, I rarely run OOM before SR is back up again (though I do recommend getting a Black Grasp -- it is fantastic).
For 70, I think a 0/40/21 build is the way to go. SR won't be useful in arenas when compared to NS as I have yet to run OOM in an arena. NS is just too good to pass up, either a max heal to a teammate, or a instant chain lightning on a SS target to get the first arena kill (in all the matches I have played, I have yet to see a team go on to victory when they have had the first team death).
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01/04/07, 2:07 PM
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#752
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Soda Popinski
Sebudai
Orc Hunter
No WoW Account
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Yeah it looks like Flametongue is going to be basing it's damage off of the weapons it's enchanted on now. Oh well.
I think Flametongue off hand still might be more sustained damage in a raid setting if you're using Stormcaller like I am, though. Not being affected by the off hand 50% reduction in damage is pretty huge(unless they changed this aswell...) And it is still getting the bonus from Fire Vulnerability, Curse of Elements and 10% of our +spell damage.
If you're going with gear that is more melee focused stat-wise then I think you're definitely right about wf/wf being better. I'm not sure why slow weapons would be better than fast ones for anything other than pvp, though. Faster weapons will give you more mana from Judgement of Wisdom, Black Grasp of the Destroyer and Shamanistic Rage, and they will also keep the Unleashed Rage buff up more consistently.
Oh, and I'm pretty sure we can proc Windfury off of Stormstrike right now on live servers. I spent a few hours in Silithus playing around and figuring out what I can proc things off of etc.
Now the question is which is the 'better' route to take gear-wise. Melee focused gear like Scaled Sand Reaver Leggings, or gear like Stormcaller's with lower melee stats but a lot of +damage and some mp5?
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"You ain't my bitch, nigga. Buy your own damn fries." - President Barack Obama
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01/04/07, 2:16 PM
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#753
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I prefer the term treasure hunting
Orc Death Knight
Mal'Ganis
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Originally Posted by Sebudai
I'm not sure why slow weapons would be better than fast ones for anything other than pvp, though. Faster weapons will give you more mana from Judgement of Wisdom, Black Grasp of the Destroyer and Shamanistic Rage, and they will also keep the Unleashed Rage buff up more consistently.
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To make better use of Stormstrike, and of course to avoid Windfury overlap. :P
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Now the question is which is the 'better' route to take gear-wise. Melee focused gear like Scaled Sand Reaver Leggings, or gear like Stormcaller's with lower melee stats but a lot of +damage and some mp5?
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Happily, I don't think there is a wrong answer to this since your style of play will dictate which gear is "better" for you.
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Originally Posted by CheshireCat
Eh, my nostalgia goggles aren't as good as they used to be.
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01/04/07, 2:40 PM
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#754
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by Sebudai
If you're going with gear that is more melee focused stat-wise then I think you're definitely right about wf/wf being better. I'm not sure why slow weapons would be better than fast ones for anything other than pvp, though. Faster weapons will give you more mana from Judgement of Wisdom, Black Grasp of the Destroyer and Shamanistic Rage, and they will also keep the Unleashed Rage buff up more consistently.
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Does anyone actually know the solid numbers on the proc rate of JoW and SR? I've been looking around but I haven't seen anybody who's done the tests. I.e. are these PPM procs (if so what ppm), and if chance based, what chance?
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01/04/07, 2:45 PM
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#755
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Ithyphallic
Night Elf Death Knight
Silvermoon (EU)
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Originally Posted by Coriolis
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Originally Posted by Sebudai
If you're going with gear that is more melee focused stat-wise then I think you're definitely right about wf/wf being better. I'm not sure why slow weapons would be better than fast ones for anything other than pvp, though. Faster weapons will give you more mana from Judgement of Wisdom, Black Grasp of the Destroyer and Shamanistic Rage, and they will also keep the Unleashed Rage buff up more consistently.
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Does anyone actually know the solid numbers on the proc rate of JoW and SR? I've been looking around but I haven't seen anybody who's done the tests. I.e. are these PPM procs (if so what ppm), and if chance based, what chance?
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JoW has always been 50% (see http://www.thotbott.com/beta?sp=27164 )
Not sure on SR.
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01/04/07, 3:13 PM
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#756
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Disharmonious
Dwarf Paladin
Lightbringer
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According to some testing with a couple hours of combat logs, SR's around 35-40% straight proc rate (not ppm).
This of course could have changed.
Edit:
Well Skaice, I was the person who sat in BL running combat logs in the -first- place..*grin*
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Originally Posted by bartolimu
It makes me want to hit Marge Thatcher on the nose with a rolled up newspaper.
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01/04/07, 3:14 PM
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#757
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Don Flamenco
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Originally Posted by Coriolis
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Originally Posted by Sebudai
If you're going with gear that is more melee focused stat-wise then I think you're definitely right about wf/wf being better. I'm not sure why slow weapons would be better than fast ones for anything other than pvp, though. Faster weapons will give you more mana from Judgement of Wisdom, Black Grasp of the Destroyer and Shamanistic Rage, and they will also keep the Unleashed Rage buff up more consistently.
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Does anyone actually know the solid numbers on the proc rate of JoW and SR? I've been looking around but I haven't seen anybody who's done the tests. I.e. are these PPM procs (if so what ppm), and if chance based, what chance?
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i was asking this question for months, and someone finally did some tests on SR and posted here. the procrate was ~35%
edit: beaten
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01/04/07, 8:14 PM
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#758
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Glass Joe
Human Death Knight
Ravencrest (EU)
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Okies. Since the preparing reroll topic got closed I think this is the right place to ask few pointers about leveling shaman. I've gathered few items for leveling and while checking for upgrades for mail gloves I noticed there weren't too many good ones before level 68+(thottbot beta). Then I checked the Black Grasp of the Destroyer but I don't know if those would be worth the costs. I'm prolly going to grind as dw enhancement. So is the mana going to be problem with shamanistic rage and if so would the black grasps cut the downtime down enough?
Sorry if this has been asked before, I skimmed through the last 10 pages and didn't notice anything there.
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01/04/07, 8:17 PM
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#759
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Piston Honda
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I am enhancement and use those gloves and I adore them! I was grinding nonstop for about 4 hours with so little down time. Combined The gloves no longer proc on WF hits however but with a HWL MH and Hakkar's 1H axe in the OH and with Shamanistic rage I had no problems with mana
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01/04/07, 9:56 PM
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#760
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The Howard Roark of Shipwrights
Avair
Human Rogue
No WoW Account
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Then I checked the Black Grasp of the Destroyer but I don't know if those would be worth the costs.
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These things look great for a horde 60 shaman. However, even with the amount of prep I'm doing, it seems really expensive to get them for leveling a dranei shaman. I mean, I don't plan to be at 60 long, so I would think you would end up leveling past them quickly.
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01/04/07, 9:57 PM
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#761
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Don Flamenco
Draenei Shaman
Ysondre (EU)
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Same situation than Feles, I have a question about Shaman rerolling. Until I hit level 62 (where I should have done most of the Hellfire Peninsula quests), I have planned to stay Enhancement, but as an healing-freak, I was planning to respec Elemental ( click for possible template) to do both things, leveling and healing in 5-man dungeons without having to collect two totally different gears and/or respecing Resto for the few 'hard for an inexperienced PuG' dungeons. Is there so much downtime with Elemental (I'm totally planning to grind Honor Hold tokens to get Mark of Vindication asap, and later the Power Infused Mushroom) ?
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01/04/07, 10:00 PM
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#762
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Such a Cassandra
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Originally Posted by Nite_Moogle
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Originally Posted by Andrise
I'd say that your WF "cooldown" is related to the code added to make WF not proc off of itself, and HoJ, etc. This was when BLizzard was on a crusade to stop multiple dmg procs occuring simulaneously a few patches back.
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I'd just about bet it's been there forever but nobody has noticed or cared until now with the introduction of dual wield and Stormstrike's improvement (10 sec cooldown and not outrageous mana cost). There isn't any other proc in the game that has a hard coded cooldown time on it that I am aware of unless it says it in the spell description, and this behaves in exactly that fashion.
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No. I have an Ironfoe and the screenshots to prove that (prior to 2.0, I've hardly been on since) I was able to get stuff like a normal hit proccing Windfury hits proccing Ironfoe hits proccing Windfury hits. In one or two unusual cases, even longer strings than that. This was well and truly after they stopped multiple damage procs from the same swing, but it didn't prevent Ironfoe proccing off the windfury swings and vice versa.
As such, if they put a cooldown in on Windfury procs, it was in 2.0 or only on beta, since I was previously able to get multiple Windfury procs in the same fraction of a second.
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01/04/07, 10:36 PM
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#763
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Disharmonious
Dwarf Paladin
Lightbringer
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Well, for whatever it's worth on BGotD....I'm not really seeing costs if your guild has been farming AQ40 for a while. Our guild has a stunningly large stockpile of large/small obsidian shards, and I'm reasonably sure I could scrounge up a flask now that we're not going to be raiding quite as much....
And besides skillups I haven't found a single reason that they're needed.
Of course you'll only use them 60-68, but that's a not inconsiderable chunk of time for mats that really are pretty trivial on the return. And for extremely long fights, fights where there's required mana draining (haven't seen em, but after fighting a 5man rag I'm just gonna assume they exist), or fights where -you- are mana drained, it's a fairly decent ability that cannot be easily replicated.
I guess it comes down to costs of materials for you. 60-68 is somewhere between 6-10 days for a dedicated player, and then you're depending on a sidegrade drop table. Me, I'm going to take the sure thing till 70, then run shattered Halls and upgrade straight to Desolation. If you're not looking at buying the shards from the AH, I think I'd recommend doing the same- and you can always couch it as a skillup point!
Of course, if it's a reroll that's not going to be part of the same guild, or on another server, or some such, then I'd recommend -not- doing it, unless you just find a steal on the shards. I just tend to assume most posters here are in guilds which would have a few of these sitting around (it's not ike they're overly useful for anything else).
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Originally Posted by bartolimu
It makes me want to hit Marge Thatcher on the nose with a rolled up newspaper.
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01/05/07, 9:21 AM
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#764
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Mr. Sandman
Humbalo
Tauren Druid
No WoW Account
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I have Black Grasp, and they're useful situationally. If you're instancing a lot and have a really low mana pool, they help. If you have a reasonable amount of mana (my tauren rogue gear has something like 3700mp) or a reasonable amount of regen or time to drink, I wouldn't bother unless you can get them made for no effort. They represent approximately 35 mana/5 with two 2.3 speed weapons. It's not insignificant, but unless you're doing long fights with no breaks, they're nothing special. Maybe if you're grinding a ton they'd be better? I still think that if you have the mats sitting around rotting in the guild break, go for it; otherwise, I'd pass.
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01/05/07, 10:17 AM
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#765
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Von Kaiser
Draenei Shaman
Vek'nilash
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Not to derail the thread but I really dont know where else to ask this, and it certainly isn't threadworthy in it's own right.
Anyway, I'm rolling a shaman for the first time (the only class I haven't leveled to 60) come expansion. My end goal is to be either 0/10/51 or 10/0/51. Basically a heavy resto build either way. I'm going to be going fully enhancment from 1-60 (due to melee being much easier to twink), but at SOME point I'm going to have to switch over to restoration...I'm afraid if I wait until I'm level 70 I'm going to end up having 0 healing gear and end up with crap +healing and a shallow mana pool.
Basically my question is, should I just stick with enhancment from 60-70, or at some point switch over (after I get a certain amount of +damage?) to restoration beforehand, like at level 60? I can pretty much guess that at level 60 I'm going to have very very minimal +damage equipment, and I'm not certain it'll be all that smart to switch over at that point to a 10/0/41 type build. Any advice is appricated, thanks.
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