Khalim

Ok didnt see any discussion on the new warrior talents. They dont look as strong as other classes initially especially in the dps trees but hopefully itemisation and rage scalling will make up for it

Anyway wanted some discussion on builds. I'm fully pve dps focused so some potential fury builds

41 Fury with impale and 3/5 TM
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...00000000000000

43 Fury with no impale, hm... i prob like this build more
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...00000000000000


Ignoring new talents in fury to pick up a weapon spec and sweeping strikes
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...00000000000000

Extention 31/20 of a pve arms build

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...00000000000000

A full prot build:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...50002023530351

This looks quite fat, wonder if you can afford to not have 3 wars in full prot for end game BC content.

Wonder if Deathwing could model the new talents in his spreadsheet so we can compare. Not sure if worth the time though if these will change before they come out.

http://ctprofiles.net/2868856

 

Koz

I'll be getting conq blow and shield slam (which both should be changed to include a daze effect for the new HS's)

The new talents kind of gimp me as an off tank. They look essentail to tank raids but dont give any room to pickup a talent that lets me do any kind of dps when not tanking.

 

Darke

I think this will be a solid tanking build. Might switch from Improved Heroic to Improved Defensive Stance in the end. Might not keep Piercing Howl.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...50002103501351

 

jessi

Hi Darke!

I've got two ideas for pure fury DPS (which is still going to be JUST FINE)

One is with improved OP, one is without. I'm thinking all the new fury talents will make up for all the non DPS still I'd have to get to get imp OP.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...00000000000000

and

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...00000000000000

Debating between the gain in DPS and surviability and the new fury being better than improved OP; probably is.

 

• squiffy

My main concern is is the instance content along the way going to be tuned around having a protection warrior.

Grinding to 70 outside of instances as protection spec makes me cringe.

 

xarg

I doubt there'll be much grinding outside of instances to get to 70. Even if there was you would find 0 problems finding some dps classes to destroy mobs while you tank them. The only issue would be if you like soloing (in which case you wouldn't spec prot).

I have to say I'm pretty disappointed with the pve dps state of things, there's very little to gain. The fury 41 point talent is weak as all hell (its about the equivalent of crusader in the offhand, except not up as often). There's a couple of semi-decent new talents. And not having TM in arms means that you have to invest a fair way up the tree before you start getting substantial benefits. If anything I think it advocates either going full pvp (41/25/5), full prot (5/5/too many) or hybrid pve (fury prot). Arms seems to be a lot less effective for a dps warrior now. It's the pvp tree.

And yes, a protection tank will now be massively superior to having non-prot tanks. I've got a mage and priest alt at 60, and currently play my warrior as my main. If my warrior stays as my main I'll be for sure speccing prot (currently 13/38/0).

 

jessi

I digress.

Our PvE DPS is still gonna scale nicely and we got some nice new skills to boot. Rampage isn't ALL THAT, but it's as good as crusader, if not a little better.

Protection is gonna be able to solo just fine with shield slam hitting for a shitton, spell reflection and a bunch of nice stuff. Protection is also going to be really nice in PvP when fighting mages haha. Gonna be weird for some to fight mages in defensive gear, haha.

And yes, not having TM in arms means you might have to skil out on the early arms and go full fury.. OR.. take a hybrid build with axe or sword spec and some nice fury stuff.

I'm dissappointed vitality is only 5 points for 5% though when rogues get 2 points for 4% and there are other examples of asshattery too.

 

Deneb

What about a 0/31/30 hybrid build?

You can get 5/5 1H weapon spec, that is probably a bigger dps increase than the 31+ fury talents. And also a lot of useful tanking talents, TM, conc blow, last stand.

 

Copernicus

In their healing tree, Paladins get 5 points for 35% of int for damage/healing. In their healing tree, Shaman get 3 points for 30% of int for damage/healing.

Mages, in our support tree, get 5/5 for 25% of our int for damage/healing.

Blizzard has definently gone out of their way to try to shore up percieved defecits in various classes.

Wrath of the Lich King profession perks - http://elitistjerks.com/f15/t29288-w...p2/#post831861

 

• Tiiki

It was ever this way though. Druids in Cat get most of the Rogue talents at 2/2 or 3/3 that are 5/5 for us. Shamans have a similar situation in a couple of places too.

When a talent is 'non-primary' it always costs less...

 

Rz

Sorry to interject here without much mathematical support, but I thought it was fairly obvious that the best PVE dps build now would be 25/36... Sword/Axe Spec, then BT + Precision.

 

Carnitine

For me the big question is whether to go deeper than 3 points into Arms. Imp HS is a given, and there are 43 points in fury that I would like to have, and at least a couple points in TM would be nice. The other 13 points would be fun in prot to get last stand, or with a minor adjustment would allow imp OP and impale. There are up to 53 fury points that seem worth getting, so 3/53/5 might be the way to go. 25/36/0 with a weapon spec is also really nice, although there are a bunch of wasted points in that one from a DW dps standpoint, and no TM hurts a lot for pvp. 31/30/0 or 30/31/0 would be the ultimate for pvp and dps if TM hadn't been moved, but that was probably the reason for it.

A lot of it will depend on what the new content is like and how important points in prot will be for a non-MT warrior. I assume I'll start heading down the 3/53/5 path at release and go from there. If I get a severance or DEoI before then, I'll be tempted to go 25/36 with axe spec, since I also dual wield axes.

 

Grayson Carlyle

Imp Rend is very good rage -> damage conversion, and with 40 debuff slots, you might want to consider that in your specs.

I was going to put up a 2H fury spec, but you can just take the one posted by Margot and put the points into Axe or Sword instead of Impale (Assuming a rather high 45:55 white to yellow damage ratio, you'd have to have a 36.36% crit rate for impale to be more damage than either) and fiddle as your personal preference to get enough points for imp zerker stance (I'm partial to imp cleave myself).

 

Nemesism

I personally wil probably spec something like this

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...00000000000000


I figure AM will be long nerfed by the time BC hits and being stuck in Zerker stance most of the time for the 6% AP increase will make Overpower a meh ability.

http://ctprofiles.net/4894

 

Khalim

Sad that the new BC talents in both the end of the arms tree and fury tree are just so lacking
they are certainly not the "ZOMG" factor that many of the other classes have e.g. mages, locs.

I think bliz will have to change them before release if they want warriors to spec into the new talents rather than the 25/36 or 31/30 builds. Then again maybe with BC wars with no points in prot are dead.

http://ctprofiles.net/2868856

 

Grock

As far as raid DPS goes it looks like 25/36 arms/fury will be the best for DW'ers and 31/30 arms/fury will be the best for 2H users. Unless they're severely buffed I can't see both Rampage and Improved Berserker Stance being better than axe/sword spec.

http://ctprofiles.net/63312

 

◊ Kalman

Yes, especially the rogue "zomg" factor of "ZOMG, this will make me do *less* damage? WTH?" when it comes to combat 41.

http://mmorchive.net

The WoW forums, explained:

 

Melissande

I see many people speaking about melee DPS

Will there be many DPS warrior spots ?

In a raid with 3 warriors, 2 mays easily be asked to go full prot. I mean, no bitching around, +10% HP, 6% mitigation and so on will scream "go protection or stop thinking about tanking in raids"

 

Julemanden

On the EU site the talents calc they had up had MT in arms tree again and Iron Will moved back, sadly I cannot check this since i am stuck at work atm. And to those that say the Vitality talent should give more, well the more % stam it gives you the harder encounters will hit and the more importent it will be that all warriors need it, or else if your MT arent there the other warriors are pretty much paper tanks compared to him which is also worth noting if you think the right way to go would be all prot warriors. As for talents builds myself, if MT is moved back to arms a 34+ fury 25 arms or something for wep spec could be fun to try atleast. Cant make a link since i am at work.

 

◊ Kasi

Probably one full prot, one hybrid prot (like that 31/30 spec early) and one arms bitch for the +5% melee dmg. If you're truly min maxing it's probably what you want.

 

Nemesism

I imagine there will be atleast one that will be spec'd 41 Arms/5 Fury/15 Prot (or something similar). Since the Blood Frenzy talent looks like its a flat 5% melee damage increase on a mob while you have Rend or Deep Wounds on.

http://ctprofiles.net/4894

 

Carnitine

5/5 Vitality is actually +5% stamina, which adds up to roughly 3% more hit points. As a tauren, I'll still have more hp than my guild's main tank. The 6% mitigation only refers to spell damage. This is a very nice MT talent, but likely unnecessary for an OT. The new prot tree seems very solid, but it still doesn't seem absolutely necessary.

My latest conclusion is to start out at 0/46/5 and eventually end up at 5/51/5 or 8/48/5. Depending on how hard the mobs hit, I might go for something like 7/43/11. If my weapons match it'd be fun to try 25/36/0 or 25/34/2.

 

Khalim

Yes the posiblity of this make me even sader than the lackluster talents. I really like DSPing and OT'ing when required and being able to do this with a dps spec and a change of gear. If 25 man raids make it so that full prot spec is absolutly required due to vitality, spell dmg reduction etc. that will really lower the fun I have on my warrior.

I hoping rather that you take 3-4 warriors for each raid, 1 MT full prot others anything they want. Use bears and paly tanks where these classes are more suitalbe and allow dps warriors to continue to dps and offtank. Oh well time will tell.

http://ctprofiles.net/2868856

 

xarg

Uh.. it's worse than crusader. The only possible advantage is that it's on demand to be used with deathwish, rather than a random proc. But there's a >1/2 chance you get a crusader proc with deathwish up anyway. Crusader is 1ppm and lasts 15 seconds. Rampage is 30 seconds out of 3 minutes. Crusader wins :P It also heals you, and procs off instants. It also doesn't cost rage :)

Have to agree here, you generally want a variation. Though I think you'd be more likely to want two tanks with points in prot. It shouldn't be too hard to convince people who don't want to spec prot, now that TM is there :)

That way on the single tank fights nobody is wasted, you have 2 solid offtanks and one left over who generally dpses but tanks when you're short or it's a tank-intensive encounter.

 

Melissande

In my opinion the main problem with non tanking warrior is raid size reduction.

Vanilla WOW
40 men => 5 warriors (or more, see 4 horsemen 1 st kill) => 2 tanks (most fights require at least another warrior to tank an add, or to take wing buffets , or ...) => 2 warriors gain advantage of protection spec

Post BC
25 men => 2.66 warriors (3 I suspect) => Still 2 tanks (for most fights, I presum