Warrior BC Talent specs - Page 3

Groglox · 08/29/06, 5:08 AM

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...50000000000000

I really like that spec as a good hybrid. It will still do great dps with windfury totem, and works as a sufficient tanking build with some great tanking talents. I am a bit dissapointed that Sheild spec was moved down so you can't get that single point in imp sheild block anymore, but I think the shortened cooldown and longer duration on Sheild Wall is a big bonus and helps make me feel less stuck to that.

suicuique · 08/29/06, 6:02 AM

Originally Posted by Grock

As far as raid DPS goes it looks like 25/36 arms/fury will be the best for DW'ers and 31/30 arms/fury will be the best for 2H users. Unless they're severely buffed I can't see both Rampage and Improved Berserker Stance being better than axe/sword spec.

I would not be so sure about it.

First, weapon specs to really shine you need matching weapons. Which is not a given. Consider that on the way to get up to the weapon specs a lot of the points is wasted for DW purposes (IMHO) and the damage/talent ratio of weapon specs is'nt that good anymore fur dual wielding.

Second 6% AP can be huge. Raid buffed i can get as high as 2k AP. That is without consecrated stones, without crusader procs. Add these to maxed Rampage and in raid situations warriors (with current gear!) could go up as high as 2.8K if all stars align :)

So 6% would add a whopping 120 to 168 AP. Thats half a Battleshout. And more than +10DPS right there.

And finally, i do not want to disregard improved pummel. The 50% chance to daze a target COULD be huge. Depends on the extra damage HS does against dazed targets.

This is from a pure DPS perspective. We'll have to wait to judge how much in prot is required. If some investements is to be done there, going up to 1h Spec could be a lovely benefit even for DPS purposes.

ADDENDUM:
If aggro is to become a commonplaced issue again (and the new poison type does give a hint IMHO) going full PvE DPS really underlines the berserking theme. Think suicide warrior walking on the edge. I like that thought.
But the prot talents are nice ... really depends how raid composition is going to end, before we can conclude how much DPS a warrior can afford.

regards

Krug · 08/29/06, 6:06 AM

Originally Posted by squiffy

My PvE Arms DPS build would be 40/21.

Sword spec, 2H spec, Blood Frenzy, MS and Death Wish. With the Flurry nerf going that far in Fury if Arms based is less attractive.

efb: dammit. That'll mind me to take my time posting :)

Flurry was a typo purportedly! Probably true, since they had the same typo a patch or two ago. Going to be different hearing people cry about the lack of deep wounds.

suicuique · 08/29/06, 6:17 AM

EDIT: Sorry for that brainfart ... suppose its just that dubious wording of that patch again.

regards

Introvert · 08/29/06, 6:48 AM

Second revision and looking at the arms tree. More and more I depise the move of Tactical Mastery:

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...00000000000000

Two more ranks of Mortal Strike, additional 140 damage added to the current rank of MS available. Added with the warrior version of Hemo makes for DPS and Utility potential.

Eudaimonia · 08/29/06, 8:35 AM

I've got my eye on a 41/15/5 build, to be the 'Blood Frenzy' bitch. I don't like the changes, but it looks like the days of the full DPS warrior are coming to an end. Being a debuff bitch is a compromise I could live with.

Rane · 08/29/06, 8:43 AM

Originally Posted by Rz

Sorry to interject here without much mathematical support, but I thought it was fairly obvious that the best PVE dps build now would be 25/36... Sword/Axe Spec, then BT + Precision.

Especially for Orcs and Humans. As an Orc, I'm very much interested in picking up Axe spec :) It's a lot more benefit than 100 odd more AP through Imp Zerk stance in my opinion.

For pure PvE dps its the bomb. No TM means I'll have to adjust a new playing style but with the talents and spells now final and in a talent calculator I'm a lot more confident in how our DPS specs will pan out.

Originally Posted by Eudaimonia

I've got my eye on a 41/15/5 build, to be the 'Blood Frenzy' bitch. I don't like the changes, but it looks like the days of the full DPS warrior are coming to an end. Being a debuff bitch is a compromise I could live with.

Was it confirmed that Blood Frenzy will be a debuff on the mob? I can totally see Blizzard make it a selfbuff or debuff like Deathwish for the warrior only...

Grock · 08/29/06, 8:59 AM

Originally Posted by suicuique

Originally Posted by Grock

As far as raid DPS goes it looks like 25/36 arms/fury will be the best for DW'ers and 31/30 arms/fury will be the best for 2H users. Unless they're severely buffed I can't see both Rampage and Improved Berserker Stance being better than axe/sword spec.

I would not be so sure about it.

First, weapon specs to really shine you need matching weapons. Which is not a given. Consider that on the way to get up to the weapon specs a lot of the points is wasted for DW purposes (IMHO) and the damage/talent ratio of weapon specs is'nt that good anymore fur dual wielding.

Second 6% AP can be huge. Raid buffed i can get as high as 2k AP. That is without consecrated stones, without crusader procs. Add these to maxed Rampage and in raid situations warriors (with current gear!) could go up as high as 2.8K if all stars align :)

So 6% would add a whopping 120 to 168 AP. Thats half a Battleshout. And more than +10DPS right there.

And finally, i do not want to disregard improved pummel. The 50% chance to daze a target COULD be huge. Depends on the extra damage HS does against dazed targets.

This is from a pure DPS perspective. We'll have to wait to judge how much in prot is required. If some investements is to be done there, going up to 1h Spec could be a lovely benefit even for DPS purposes.

Rampage is garbage (except maybe for execute burn, even then it's not very good) and Improved Berserker Stance just can't hold a candle to the weapon specs. If you go 25/36 you can get the better fury talents like precision and maybe a point or 2 in Improved Berserker Stance, but dropping 41 points into the tree and ignoring the weapon specs is a mistake IMO.

Rampage is only about 28AP over the course of a fight for DW'ers, and half that for 2H users (Earthstrike is almost twice as powerful). Figuring 3000 AP, adding both Rampage and Improved Berserker Stance together gives you a total of about 210AP. Is 210AP better than sword/axe spec? Especially considering that at 3000AP you're going to be hitting 1200DPS+...5% crit gives you 60DPS+ and I can't see 210AP coming close to that boost.

The utility of Improved Pummel is interesting, but I'm guessing that it will be most useful in PVP due to immunities. We won't know this until the game comes out, but just a hunch.

Kytrarewn · 08/29/06, 9:20 AM

Originally Posted by Eudaimonia

I've got my eye on a 41/15/5 build, to be the 'Blood Frenzy' bitch. I don't like the changes, but it looks like the days of the full DPS warrior are coming to an end. Being a debuff bitch is a compromise I could live with.

I don't know for sure, but it looks to me at least that they're trying to reduce the difference, spec-wise, between "DPS Warrior" and "Tank".

Tactical Mastery is one big change, granted, and it's probably not a positive one, given that tanks would pick up Deflection anyway.

But another big thing is the unlinking of Last Stand w/ Imp. Bloodrage, which allows more "hybrid prot specs" to pick up Last Stand without giving up points in Defiance or more than one point in Cruelty.
This build, for example, would probably be a very high aggro-gen build and survivable build for tanking, but still be quite fun in arenas, though it doesn't pick up the 41 point talents (MS at +300 damage will still do crazy amounts of aggro even with a one-hander):
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...50012100000000

It also helps Fury/Prot specs who previously had odd builds like 0/32/19 or 3/31/17 and couldn't pick up TM at all.

A fury prot build like the following, again, while not picking up the 41 point talents which are, in all cases, underwhelming

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...50020000000000

The biggest problem, that I can see, with the move of Tactical Mastery is that the Arms tree now seems very "weak" in the 5-10 point area, similar to how the Mage's Arcane Tree felt in the initial version of their review in the 10-15 point part of the tree. Iron Will does not make up for the deficit, and feels like Wasted Talent Points (a personal loathing) in any build that wants to go higher than 10 points in Arms.

Pyros · 08/29/06, 9:27 AM

Rampage will probably get buffed before the end of the beta. Remember Bloodthirst? It started at what, 30% ap dmg? Then got buffed like 3times in a row to end up at 45%. It's better to start low and buff bit by bit than start with a +300%rage generation +25%crit talent then nerf it down to oblivion because it's too powerful and feel bad about making it better again so you end up with a gimped talent forever. See Invisibility.

Eudaimonia · 08/29/06, 9:32 AM

Originally Posted by Kytrarewn

The biggest problem, that I can see, with the move of Tactical Mastery is that the Arms tree now seems very "weak" in the 5-10 point area, similar to how the Mage's Arcane Tree felt in the initial version of their review in the 10-15 point part of the tree. Iron Will does not make up for the deficit, and feels like Wasted Talent Points (a personal loathing) in any build that wants to go higher than 10 points in Arms.

I agree with you. The new trees make hybrids more interesting, especially Fury/Prot. I think this is an indication of how things are going to go for Warriors - with only 3 spots in the new raiding setup, we're probably going to see many more hybrids, and far fewer full Fury builds.
I really hate what they did the Arms tree, especially in the lower tiers. I find myself struggling to find talents I actually like, just to make it to 2h Spec. And then I get stuck again, further up the tree, trying to reach MS.

Grock · 08/29/06, 9:42 AM

Originally Posted by Pyros

Rampage will probably get buffed before the end of the beta. Remember Bloodthirst? It started at what, 30% ap dmg? Then got buffed like 3times in a row to end up at 45%. It's better to start low and buff bit by bit than start with a +300%rage generation +25%crit talent then nerf it down to oblivion because it's too powerful and feel bad about making it better again so you end up with a gimped talent forever. See Invisibility.

True. The talent would become a lot more appealing if it ended up being +1% of AP that stacks 10 times instead of a static AP increase, or something similar that scales with better gear.

Breaksmith · 08/29/06, 9:43 AM

An interesting 0/31/30 spec with 1h specialisation for some kind of strange Fury Tank DWer. I would have thought the 10% 1h damage bonus would outweigh a weapon specialisation and doesn't require matched weapons. You do lose Impale, but you gain tank skills and get Conc blow thrown in for PvP lols.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...00000100500000

Strange but kinda cool.

I must admit, the movement of the basic building blocks of the Arms and Fury tree from end of the tree to mid tree means that we are no longer restricted to max 20 points in the off spec tree, which really does make for some interesting builds.

I'm still not wholey sold on Rampage and even less on Endless Rage but what we have now is, I think, the possibility to make some really clever and fun builds. I am a lot happier with these talents now I've got to play around with them.

Pokey · 08/29/06, 9:45 AM

Originally Posted by jessi

One is with improved OP, one is without. I'm thinking all the new fury talents will make up for all the non DPS still I'd have to get to get imp OP.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...00000000000000

and

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...00000000000000

Debating between the gain in DPS and surviability and the new fury being better than improved OP; probably is.

First build is what I'm leaning towards at the moment. I'd really like to have improved overpower but given what I need to take to get there and what it would cost me in terms of missed fury points, I agree the build for dps is better off with the extra points in fury as it stands.

suicuique · 08/29/06, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by Breaksmith

An interesting 0/31/30 spec with 1h specialisation for some kind of strange Fury Tank DWer. I would have thought the 10% 1h damage bonus would outweigh a weapon specialisation and doesn't require matched weapons. You do lose Impale, but you gain tank skills and get Conc blow thrown in for PvP lols.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...00000100500000

Strange but kinda cool.

I like that build a lot.

You do lose some good DPS talents in the fury tree (improved execute,1point in DW spec/improved BS) but otherwise it keeps the fury tree intact as we know it.

On the plus side you get some serious OT love (Toughness, Defiance/Anticipation, Last Stand, Shield Block, Concussion Blow) AND TM AND 1H Spec. And 1H spec in itself is certainly more of a DPS improvement than the "lost" talents in the fury tree.

It even could be a viable PvP Spec.

regards