BTW, using those numbers, I get the following DPM calculations.

Fireball (Rank 9) : 11.03 DPM
Scorch (41 fire) : 9.40 DPM
Fireball : 9.02 DPM
Frostbolt (41 Arcane) : 8.79 DPM
Scorch (41 Arcane) : 8.38 DPM
Frostbolt (41 frost) : 8.29 DPM
Arcane Missiles (41 Arcane, non CC) : 6.27 DPM

Is it certain that Fireball rank 9 is getting 100% of spelldamage? I thought they were going to add scaling multiplier to make downranking less usefull? I don't have the BC beta myself, so I can't test it myself. Do your numbers include this?

Stealing the coefficient from the healer-thread, Rank9 FB would get about 0.875 or something like if i check quickly from the graph.

http://forums.elitistjerks.com/viewt...hp?id=8412&p=3

To be honest, I added Rank 9 fireball in after the calculations out of curiosity. It's a level 48 spell, so fairly high up, and well above the original level 40 ceiling that was originally mentioned. But no, atm it doesn't include that modifier - hard data on downranking damage spells would be very useful.

Regarding stacking debuffs & % talent modifiers - you'll have to explain in more detail what I've done wrong here Christmas. I *think* my numbers give accurate data for current in game spells, but obviously I'm not very confident in them... :)

Well, it came up in a <class that we won't mention> thread before, here, and wasn't satisfactorily resolved. I can use that <class> to test tonight, hopefully, if my server is actually up. But if I'm right (and that's what the evidence there indicated) then stacking, say, Curse of Elements and Fire Vulnerability is multiplicative, so would yield 1.265 damage multiplier rather than 1.25 (it's 1.1*1.15 vs 1.1+1.15). But buffs seemed to be additive - so in a mage's case, say on Cone of Cold, you'd get 1.06 from Piercing Ice and 1.35 from Improved Cone of Cold. These would then give a combined modifier of 1.41 to Cone of Cold damage rather than 1.431 (if self buffs were multiplicative). There was recently a patch saying all things were multiplicative, but the evidence of this other thread didn't support that.

If it is all multiplicative, then your calculations are right. And, also, deep Arcane will be insanely good if it's supported by other classes.

Hmm, thinking about it, I would say that the Improved Scorch Debuff and Curse of Elements would be additive with each other, but apply on of top of the % damage talents.

i.e. All the % damage talents (Firepower, Molten fury, Playing with Fire) are additive, bringing the total % modifiers to +19%.

All the debuffs are also additive (Curse of elements, Improved Scorch), bringing the total to 25%.
This 25% would then act on the already increased fireball damage from talents. In effect, youd get 19% extra damage onto your fireball, and then a further 25% on top of that. If that is how it works, then it further increases the gap betweem fire and the other 2 spell lines, as Fire has a much bigger debuff on the mob than frost or arcane.

Re. Arcane - which other classes do you mean, and how do they support it? The mana costs people were throwing round imply that only with an innervate, mana tide totem and maybe a shadowpriest could you sustain Arcane Blast for any length of time... :)

Buffs from talents are defintiely multiplicative, from my own research, at least in the live game. If you have 3 Instability and 3 Piercing Ice for example, you get 1.03 * 1.06 = 1.0918, which is consistent with the numbers I had flying across the screen.

I tested with a warlock, using corruption, once with no demon and once with a succubus out and soul link active. If they were additive I should have received +13% damage, if multiplicative, +13.3%; the results were definitely multiplicative.

if you do the same calcs with release, do you achieve 6-700 DPS with fireball9? That seems to be about what I've seen most mages hit in naxx, just curious if backtesting validates.

i've found buffs you 'see' .. ie. soul link/curse of shadow/touch of shadow are multiplative.
talents which add to spells .. ie. shadow mastery/emp corruption/emberstorm are additative.

Vetinari, I'm not sure the kind of competition you are suggesting really makes sense.

Assuming equal gear, blah blah. I've seen very few folks OF THE SAME CLASS that have the exact same gear. Also, things like threat changes, spell schools, synergy (Ignite vs Imp Shadowbolt), and utility - not to mention the players themselves - will make a big difference. I doubt anyone would refuse a well-geared and well-played Warlock to fill a ranged DPS position. Same goes for Hunters and Mages. They can all provide ranged, consistent, threat-reduced damage, all with their own unique bags of tricks and flavor. I just don't see a straight numerical comparison as being very valuable at this stage.

Tired of the race and I´ve been wanting to start over as a mage for quite some time for some weird reason. I dont expect the next expansion to be as overwhelming as this one, so I think now is the best time to roll another race.