The in-game tooltip for Arcane Missiles (max rank) says 264 to 265 per tick. I've been using AM for some theory-crafting testing because of the basically fixed base damage, and this seems wrong.

After some naked Dr Boom tests (300+ AM ticks), I get 267.2 per tick, or 1336 per full cast. I discarded and/or normalized the crits (only 9 in 312 ticks) and un-adjusted for Playing with Fire (3%, the only talent I have that increases Arcane Missile).

Since Vontre's spreadsheet still uses 1323 and I could not find either of these numbers using Search, I wondered if anyone else had noticed that. It's a minor error and of no great consequence, but in the interest of accuracy and theory-crafting it's worth knowing.

Also, I found a blurb in the mage code for Dr Damage that mentions the tooltip is wrong and should be 3-4 higher, and that add-on accurately figures AM tick damage.

Has any theorycrafting about meta gem choices for mages been done? I couldn't find any with the forum search function. I'm hoping to get my Tirisfal helm in the near future, and am wondering which to choose.

This is with the cookie cutter 10/48/3 build, by the way.

[Mystical Skyfire Diamond] offers the highest DPS increase in a vacuum. The gem requirement makes it pretty unattractive though, considering that you have to regem about everything and loose hit/crit/stats/boni in that progress.
It will also mess up any kind of Arcane Blast rotation if you later decide to chose that route (and you need to wear your T5 for that.)


// [Relentless Earthstorm Diamond] is a great second choice and about twice as good as the spell damage/crit meta gems.

EDIT: [Relentless Earthstorm Diamond] currently has no effect on spell crits on the latest PTR 2.2 patch. (september 4th 2007)

For how much crit % are we talking about. At what point for 10/48/3 is it not the best gem choice?
edit: It's just always bothered me a agil gem is the best caster one :\

For a fire mage, the Mystical is worth 2,5% damage.
The Relentless is worth (2,163*crit + (1-crit)) / (2,1 * crit + (1 -crit)) = (1,163 * crit) / (1,1 * crit)

Some math gives us that your crit rate needs to be above 70,42% for the Relentless to be more DPS than the Mystical, if you disregard the gem requirement. So, Mystical is always better except on Loatheb...

The best socketing strategy for Mystical is to screw bonuses, and go all red gems + 1 Nightseye. Without even counting the meta, this also yields more dps than following the colors and socketing topaz/nightseye, at the expense of stamina and +crit (and MoE returns).

Are you seriously suggesting that MOE mana returns are key to deep fire DPS? I'm pretty sure I could raid with 2 pts in MOE and never notice.

While a minor point, MSD is worth a bit less than 2.5% DPS for fire mages, since using the proc on scorch results in no dps gain.

RED is definately not worth its meta gem nowhere near as much come 2.2. What was 5-9% more crit damage is now 3%, makes it a whole lot less interesting. I'm definately switching to MSD come 2.2, just because RED is not really 'good' anymore. Not to mention all the buffs it has gained.

I don't think Deep fire gets affected by the RED fix at all. The bonus was already just a straight 1,03 factor applied on the total damage, because of the way Ignite works...

Master of Elements increases time to oom by 27% for my gear... or a 10% reduction to mana cost of fire spells. It's kindof a big deal.

Furthermore concerning MSD versus RED: as 10/48/3, using an MSD over RED yields a 0.9% dps increase. For Manly's gear this is 0.7%, he has a crit rate more in line with a geared BT mage which makes the RED better. What clinches the deal here is the gem requirement. For my own gear, swapping in enough blue/red sockets to meet the meta requirement reduces the MSD gain to a measly 0.1%, or 2 dps. It is unclear how this balance will favor however I would suggest the more sockets you have, the less gain you will see from slotting for MSD, up to a possible point of actually losing dps. RED is definitely a safe option right now if you don't feel like regemming your gear.

For 40/18/3, arcane/fire, RED is the clear favorite even without considering the gemming requirements. The 245% modifier on fire critical strikes marks this up to a sick dps increase.

All this data was garnered using my own spreadsheet, and yes, this is using the fixed version of RED.

Actually, as I said earlier, slotting for MSD will actually increases your DPS even if you do not count the meta's own boost, provided you do not care about any socket bonus and simply put reds everywhere but in one spot, where you put a purple gem (the first person I've seen posting this idea is Manly, not myself).

Suppose a piece with one yellow, one blue socket, and a + 4 damage socket bonus. If you put in a Topaz and a Nightseye, you get the equivalent of 5 + 5 + (4*0,83) + 4 = 17,32 damage (that's supposing sextant, but no RED / Ashtongue trinket/ 4-piece T5, elemental shaman, and top-level gear and buffs). Putting two Rubies gives +18 damage. The difference is a bit larger if you use epic gems. If you had two yellow sockets, then yeah, you'd lose damage, but pretty much every cloth dps piece fom SSC and beyond has one blue socket and the rest yellows...

Yes, I admit I assume the use of exclusively +12dmg gems everywhere. Fortunately, almost every single socket bonus is on blue/yellow gems. This means, you can either put all reds or blue/yellow. Both of which will give the exact same result as far as MSD gem requirement is concerned.

As you move towards BT gear, you have plenty of stamina. This means blue gems are very uninteresting since they don't provide you with anything you might need. Typically you will get a blue/yellow for +4dmg, in which case you're just better off taking +24 dmg over a total of +16dmg, 5crit, 7sta ([Potent Pyrestone][Glowing Shadowsong Amethyst]).

And vontre: MOE might affect your mana, no doubt there. But as fire spec I have never ran out of mana, or come really close to it. Hence my statement about the marginal difference the crit gained from gem affecting potentially MOE mana returns it not very realistic as far as fire spec goes.

Checked your results, and I wouldn't rely on them... your PTR numbers get a 3,3% increase in frostbolt with Ice Shards, a 3% increase in Frostbolt without Ice Shards, and a 2,3% increase to Fireball without Ignite (and the same 2,3% increase with Ignite, which makes sense since Ignite damage is a proportion of the crit damage). According to my understanding, it should theoritically be 3% for all, and that 3% already applied to Fireball pre-fix. Your sample size was probably too low - to get an estimation precise enough to confirm a difference in the tenths of a percent, you'd really need a huge sample!

How, in any shape or form, did you add any information in this post?

You provide:
"According to my understanding, it should .... "

I did:
Actual testing.

If you actually read my post I never claimed accuracy to 1/10 of a percent, I claimed +/-1%. Notice how I tested w/o the meta so I had a sort of control, I didn't shoot 10 bolts and do the math.

If you think my results are bad than please, by all means, prove me wrong with your own tests.

You use your data to prove that Fire crits are somehow affected by the RED fix. I pointed out that the variance, in your tests, between things that should be the same, is as big as the difference which you claim to have uncovered.

A fireball's crit (without ignite) and a Frostbolt's crit (without Ice Shards) should get the same bonus applied to them, unless something is screwed up. In your tests, they do not: Frostbolt gets 3%, Fireball before Ignite gets 2,3%. On Live, you had 3,3% for Fireball before Ignite.

From another angle: you claim accuracy +/- 1%. The difference you found is smaller than 1%. I don't see how we could conclude, from your data, that any change affected Fireball.

Yes, he did add information by pointing out a flaw in your results. That is, your own stated variance of +/- 1% is very large compared to the proposed gain from the gem. This is a valid point as it almost renders your findings invalid until the results can be more accurate, i.e. a larger sample size.

He does not need to do his own testing to point this out, and your being a little egotistical in getting offended. This isn't a normal message board where someone pointing out this information is a personal attack or flame. We're all looking for reliable figures, and while it's appreciated that you did testing, they are in no way conclusive. The title of the thread is Mage Theorycrafting afterall, and he's theorycrafting. While your tests are suggestive, yes, and likely correct imo, we operate on the scientific method here and they are not 'proven'.

With arround 1.150k +dmg on 10.48.3 , almost capped hit (kind of messed up my gems atm cos of new boots , replaced boots of blasting with boots from Naj'entus so i need T6 gloves to make it up) 34.5% crit self buffed (with sextant) wich trinket's you think it's better to use?Also , i got 2 T5 pieces (chest - normaly using the one from vashj with 3 x 12dmg and legs normaly using Leggings of Channeled Elements with 3 x 12 again) should i try out arcane? Will it give better dps?I never tried arcane my self , but from what i read the main dps you can get from arcane apart from AB spam for mana dumping is with abusing TLC & BT rep trink.We r going hyjal tomorrow and i was thinking to try out arcane since it will propably be imba fun for trash , any ideas what exactly to go for?

What kinds of talents are going to make up for 10% more mana? There's not much there after 48 for PVE.

His question was related to PvP talents not included in the 48 (Blazing Speed, Impact?)

I think that really comes down to a personal choice based on your gear and how you spend your time in-game. 10/48/3 is clearly better for PvE, but if you PvP a lot and are happy with how your spec works...

I guess if you like fire a lot. I'd just go 61 frost in that case myself. It's quite adequate in Kara.

Also one quite silly question from me , why i see on some WWS reports (Alaina - WWS)

not a single fireblast?

Because it's a waste of mana and global cooldown, that's it.

If you're Fire Blasting right now, should compare your dps to that persons. You're prolly near 900~dps, they're at 1300. While some of that is gear difference, most of the difference is in the casts.

Fireblast is quite frankly a padder I use on trash only at this point. Even then, I'd better have excellent predictive skills to time an AB v FB with dps warriors and rogues dumping that last few percent. Even if Vael came back, I can't imagine using FB as a serious part of a fire cycle simply because even with the +4% crit, it's scaling is ass.

I must admit, I'm in a funny place right now though. I'm liking arcane (50/11) for trash a ton and loving it for some fights (Vashj, most of SSC. al'ar) but hating it passionately for Kael. I'll flip again of course but the gearing thing is starting to get me crazy. Need hit, hate hit, need spirit, don't care, so on and so on.