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Old 11/16/06, 1:56 PM   #751
Cloudgatherer
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Death Knight
 
Lightbringer
That's also very detrimental to our aoe gimmicky sutuations, such as core hounds, imps, suppression room, goblin engineers, fenkriss tunnel, naxx skitterers..... Geez, that's a pretty big hit. Is the future of aoe going to be limited to ~5 targets?

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Old 11/16/06, 1:58 PM   #752
Soul
Don Flamenco
 
Undead Mage
 
Gilneas
Originally Posted by Lhivera
Can anyone confirm this report from Beta? Apparently AOE's are taking a damage penalty of about 60% when the number of targets exceeds a certain threshold (no word on what exactly that threshold is):

went into a low level instance and gathered up a bunch of mobs and blastwave and arcane explosioned and the blastwave HIT for 300ish and arcane explosion HIT for 200ish
normal hits are 700-800 and 400ish
Another poster says:

Clarification - When I say it hit a single mob for 990, that's my normal crit. If in live WoW, I gather up 200 mobs and hit them with a 9-point combusted blastwave, it will crit them all for 990ish. Now it is scaling down if there are more than X number of mobs.
Finally, someone did a few tests (not very precise, but gives an idea):

From my (limited) testing, here's what happened:

Normal crits... tested on 1 and 3 targets = blastwave crit for around 990
Somewhere between 6-10 mobs = crit for about 860
Pick up a whole bunch of mobs = crit for about 520
Pick up even more mobs = crit for about 480
So far the only spells people seem to have tested are Blastwave and Arcane Explosion.
I've been trying to avoid venting my feelings on the future of the mage class on these forums, but rest assured, if this nerf goes through, I will definitely reroll a warlock.

It's like all the fun out of being a mage is being sucked out. Massive Ignite stacks, giant alpha strikes, Blizzard kiting, Flamestrike farming, all gone. But with a warlock, you get to make people hurt themselves and scatter clumps of people with your Seeds of Corruption, or let rip with your uber pets, or stun in AoEs while obtaining defensive procs from their attacks against you. All the while doing similar single target dps to mages or more. I simply don't see the point any more.

Of course, this could still be a hoax... any clarification would be greatly appreciated.

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Old 11/16/06, 2:01 PM   #753
Nurru
The beatings will stop once morale improves
 
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Nurru
Undead Priest
 
No WoW Account
Maexxna, Anub'rekhan and Gluth alone spawn more than 10 adds to AOE at once periodically, if that change is intended then it's baffling. I'd love to see if Hellfire / Rain of Fire / Holy Nova are faring similarly.

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Old 11/16/06, 2:06 PM   #754
Phalanx
Oh, what I wouldn't give for a holocaust cloak.
 
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Human Mage
 
Llane
I didn't even think about the raid implications. Baffling describes this perfectly.

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Old 11/16/06, 3:04 PM   #755
Darkchani
Piston Honda
 
Undead Mage
 
<TG>
Arthas
ugh i hope this is a bad hoax... will test tonight

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Old 11/16/06, 6:34 PM   #756
Shadout
Don Flamenco
 
Undead Mage
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Tested some aoe right now.

It was only for a very short time, and its not very reliable, but...

At first i couldnt see a difference, then i found myself a healer gathered some mobs at Bone wastes (not sure exactly how many, around 10).
AE for around 395 each time. (the quite interesting this is, it hit for exactly 395 each time!)

Then i aoed 2 mobs from same area, 430-340 dmg. (here there was a difference in dmg each attack, as there should be).

Tried with 5 mobs too, and again i had different amoounts of dmg (430-450).

It wasnt a lot less dmg, and its probably too low a difference to say anything, but it looked a bit weird, especially that i got an exact dmg every single time i aoed the 10 mobs.

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Old 11/16/06, 7:08 PM   #757
AC
Von Kaiser
 
Murloc Mage
 
Darkspear
From this description of events it almost sounds like they are just doing a single roll for all the mobs after a certain point in order to reduce lag.

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Old 11/16/06, 7:10 PM   #758
Sajon
Glass Joe
 
Murloc Mage
 
Aggramar
Originally Posted by Shadout
Tested some aoe right now.

It was only for a very short time, and its not very reliable, but...

At first i couldnt see a difference, then i found myself a healer gathered some mobs at Bone wastes (not sure exactly how many, around 10).
AE for around 395 each time. (the quite interesting this is, it hit for exactly 395 each time!)

Then i aoed 2 mobs from same area, 430-340 dmg. (here there was a difference in dmg each attack, as there should be).

Tried with 5 mobs too, and again i had different amoounts of dmg (430-450).

It wasnt a lot less dmg, and its probably too low a difference to say anything, but it looked a bit weird, especially that i got an exact dmg every single time i aoed the 10 mobs.
My testing shows about the same thing.
AE hit 1-8 targets about 460-480 damage, but when I got 10 targets, exactly 395 damage each time.

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Old 11/16/06, 7:18 PM   #759
Aphyrax
Great Tiger
 
Tauren Druid
 
Tichondrius
The HP increase across the board was more than enough to weaken suicide AoE. This really is not needed. Are they trying to remove everything that is fun about mages?

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Old 11/16/06, 7:26 PM   #760
Antiphonal
Piston Honda
 
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Human Paladin
 
Malygos
Well, I can see them reworking the code to put less burden on the server when AoE'ing past 10 targets. I'm sure when I'm doing zerg-control stuff, the server, client, and connection HAS to be burning up the cycles. The plan might have been to just get a single number when past a threshold of mobs and they goofed when they implemented it. Maybe tried to reuse code from something else (hence the unwanted behavior).

This would also explain why the reports are that Blizzard (and Hellfire) are not effected while Flamestrike is. They automatically get the same number across all ticks. Blizzard rolls once, then channels that amount. It was not effected (arguably the biggest offender next to CoC because of its kiting power when talented) because it was already doing what they wanted, so they left it alone.

That's my theory at least. All reasonable expectations point to this being a bug. After all, if they wanted to kill AoE farming, they would have nerfed Blizzard, which they didn't.

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Old 11/16/06, 11:59 PM   #761
Nork
Bald Bull
 
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Troll Mage
 
Aggramar
I've been playing in RFC a bit, and this is what I've found:
- Blizzard is not currently effected by this change.
- IAE up to nine mobs is not effected.
- At 10 mobs IAE does about 10-20% less damage, and it scales down to about a 66% damage reduction for large values of mobs (I'm not sure the exact number needed to hit the 33% mark, but it was about 20).
- Cone of Cold is also affected by the damage reduction.
- Frost Nova seemed to suffer very minor diminishing returns. It got about a 20-25% reduction against 16 targets.

I'll try testing flamestrike later, but I doubt I'll get to Blastwave.

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Old 11/17/06, 4:03 AM   #762
duostrike
Don Flamenco
 
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Undead Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
You know it's bad/funny when you get all sorts other classes coming into the mage forums and posting pictures of vaseline and laughing.

Just noticing one thing about the new ignite.

http://thottbot.com/beta?sp=12848
Not dispellable..... Until they realize they made a typo.

Just trying to brigten your day :O

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Old 11/17/06, 4:06 AM   #763
Drauk
Bald Bull
 
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Drauk
Human Mage
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by duostrike
http://thottbot.com/beta?sp=12848
Not dispellable..... Until they realize they made a typo.

Just trying to brigten your day :O
That's because you are looking at wrong spell

http://thottbot.com/beta?sp=12654

Still dispellable

Originally Posted by zeidrich View Post
Women's breasts can be modeled as a cone and measured as V = (Db^2*h*.785)/3 and since breasts can be thought of as an amorphous fluid, you just have to worry about containing the volume of the breast.

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Old 11/17/06, 5:41 AM   #764
songster
Chief Passenger
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Earthen Ring (EU)
Originally Posted by Nork
I've been playing in RFC a bit, and this is what I've found:
- Blizzard is not currently effected by this change.
- IAE up to nine mobs is not effected.
- At 10 mobs IAE does about 10-20% less damage, and it scales down to about a 66% damage reduction for large values of mobs (I'm not sure the exact number needed to hit the 33% mark, but it was about 20).
- Cone of Cold is also affected by the damage reduction.
- Frost Nova seemed to suffer very minor diminishing returns. It got about a 20-25% reduction against 16 targets.

I'll try testing flamestrike later, but I doubt I'll get to Blastwave.
OK, tying this to the previous observation that low numbers get individual amounts of damage, while higher numbers all get the same damage, my money is on this being a bug related to bandwidth-saving.

It looks as though for n <= 9, each mob gets an individual damage roll. For n > 9, a single roll is made and split across all mobs. Then then forgot to make this roll scale with the number of mobs.

Thus, at 10 mobs, each is taking 9/10 as much damage as it should - a 10% reduction. For 20 mobs, each is taking 9/20 as much as it should - a 55% reduction.

If I'm right, you'll hit a 66% damage reduction at around 27 mobs - is this close enough for your "about 66%" and "about 20" to fit? It may be that the breakpoint is 8 rather than 9, which would give you 66% reduction at 24 mobs and 20% reduction at 10 mobs, which actually fits better with what you observed. Or it may be that the divisor is 8.5, or something odd like that. The point is that the numbers you post are consistent with a cutoff point in terms of mob number, after which a single damage roll is made and then divided equally between the total number of mobs.

Now, it could be that this is an intended nerf, but for now let's report it as a bug (after all, it's not in the notes), and hope that that's genuinely the case.

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Old 11/17/06, 10:46 AM   #765
duostrike
Don Flamenco
 
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Undead Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Drauk
That's because you are looking at wrong spell
http://thottbot.com/beta?sp=12654
Still dispellable
So I was.... guess I shouldn't post so late at night.... :(

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