Copernicus

Arcane Missiles + Scorch
Arcane Missiles + Fire Blast
Scorch * 4
Scorch * 2 + Fireball
Fireball * 2
Scorch + Fire Blast + Fireball

There's also the question of how high to build up the stack. Also, any Arcane Blast rotation should have a minimum and maximum threshold listed for casting time delay.

 

◊ Kalman

Spreadsheet rev 2.1 is uploaded.

Also, it's important to distinguish between FBx2 and FBx3 blast rotations, given that FBx3 is a true rotation under low effective latency conditions. You could also probably achieve some slightly different rotations if you single AB rather than double AB, although there you're getting AB(1) rather than AB(2)->AB(1).

edit: And while AB rotations do have maximum cast delay thresholds, any cycle can be achieved with a 0 delay, if the user inserts a no-cast period.

http://mmorchive.net

The WoW forums, explained:

 

Stein

So....maybe i'm confused, but I can't find anywhere that the first AB cast time is being shortened to it's appropriate length. For example:

AB (2.5) >> AB (2.2) >> AB (1.7) >> Something else for about 7.5 sec >> AB (1.5) >> AB (2.2) >> AB (1.7) >> Something else for 7.5 sec

It's the steady state cast times that need to be modeled. Please point out to me where a fast cast time is being used for the first AB if i'm just missing it.

edit: also....the cycles listed don't fit with the "something else for about 7.5 sec" theme that's key to AB maximization. The off cycles listed by Copernicus a few posts up are the key ones.

Arcane blast lover; champion of arcane specs everywhere!

 

◊ Kalman

AM->FB is also an option under low latency.

(And Stein, I just host it for Nejyn, I haven't even really had a chance to play with the sheet myself - direct questions to him!)

http://mmorchive.net

The WoW forums, explained:

 

Copernicus

If you aren't seeing the right cycles listed, you probably have the wrong spreadsheet.

The current one at http://www.radiationnow.net/wow/mage_dps.xls has overlap cycles for Fireball + Scorch*2, Arcane Missiles + Scorch, and Scorch*4. It also has an FAQ on the last tab explaining how Arcane Blast cycles work and that those three were included. I think it's still missing any Frostbolt cycles and it is definently missing any cycles that incorporate Fire Blast. I trust the math inside of it that it's working correctly, but I haven't confirmed it because it's complicated.

 

Stein

*blush* Firefox (or this download addon i have) was caching the old version.

Thanks for hosting it Kalman, didn't mean to aim my comments at you. :D ...and thanks for making the sheet Nejyn.

edit: nice! 718 dps with
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...00000000000000

edit2: one more question -- for AM+scorch, is the spirit tick (ticks?) being counted?

Arcane blast lover; champion of arcane specs everywhere!

 

Orban

What cycles?

 

Stein

the default one (3xAB, AM, Scorch); i settled on that as being the optimal cycle, and i think nejyn has too. :D

for longer encounters, i'd scale the AB side of that before the AM/Scorch side. probably like:

3xAB, AM, Scorch
2xAB, AM, Scorch
1xAB, AM, Scorch
1xAB, 4xScorch

There's a theoretical target encounter time on each one of those, but i'm not sure what they are (nejyn is close to being able to tell us though, i think).

I was also curious if/how POM & AP were factored into the dps cycles.

Arcane blast lover; champion of arcane specs everywhere!

 

Zeku

The thing you may (not) notice about molten armor during standard grinding, is that in many cases it delays the end of the fight. A heavy fire build can expect a 20-35% crit rate on all hits, which will be true until you begin replacing all your crit rating gear with +damage gear. The new ignite does not do damage until you stop critting, this is easily confirmed in the combat log. Any time you have a ignite in effect, whether it's a single scorch crit, or a massive string of crits that will ignite for 1000+ per tick, another random crit from molten armor will accomplish nothing but delay the ignite damage from hitting, which could have ended the fight instantly if the mob was low on health.

However, the problem is that molten armor is still more efficient at grinding in scenarios where you are getting hit a lot. I'm having to step away from the mob if I want any existing ignite ticks to land.

 

• Snowy

150 mp/5 is a decent estimate for an average geared average skilled shadowpriest. That's putting a shadowpriest who can sustain 600 dps.. 5% of that is 30 mana, times 5 = 150 mp/5. Anywhere from 150 to 200 mp/5 is reasonable though.

Benefactors' Bar, where you get free English lessons:

 

• Praanz

Nejyn - I'm currently using this build (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=of0VbZxgR0fcI0eRt0h)

Initially a scorch ramp up. Then my normal cycle rotates 2x(Fireball-Fireball-Fireblast) and then scorch. This is why i have the 1/3 in fireblast to give a smooth cooling. I would love if you could implement this build & cycle in your spreadsheet.

I just can't really think of any other build that deserves to be called 'Deep Fire' when talking about maxing DPS on one target than this one. Would love to see how it holds up against the arcane builds.


EDIT - Sorry, here's a more apropriate link for the spreadsheet http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...00000000000000

 

Zeku

1. Is the purpose of the scorch in the cycle to allow a full regen tick and also allow the debuff to wear off? I'm just wondering if there's something beyond that I don't know about.

2. Why get Pyro instead of 1 point in range?

3. You listed your optimal dpm cycle: AB, 4xscorch. I'm assuming the balls-to-the-wall dps cycle is just pure AB. Would pure AM ever be a middle ground between dps and dpm, or is there always a better choice? I'm thinking AB, AM, scorch will always beat pure AM, but I can't be sure.

 

Stein

Pretty much. I tried squeezing a frostbolt in there after the AM (possible in theory), but I'd miss the fast cast AB all the time.

Woops. I meant to have 2/2 Flame Throwing and 0/2 Burning Soul (i tweaked someone else's 41/20 build :D ). I like Pyro for POM...both in pvp and pve.

As far as balls to the wall goes, I still try to break-up my AB spam with AM/Scorch. I just keep scaling the AB side. The better you know an encounter, the better you'll tune your AB chain. I'm pretty sure it's always a good idea to be doing at least one AB and catching the fast/cheap cast. 2.2 sec 200 mana spell is just crazy.

Something interesting to consider on your AM vs. AB-AM/Scorch point though....how much spirit do you need to make the two full spirit ticks from AM-Imp-Fireball (or frostbolt) better DPM? Probably a lot but...also probably worth figuring out.

Arcane blast lover; champion of arcane specs everywhere!

 

Copernicus

It's something that would only be seen in a spreadsheet though, which is why I mention it.

AM/Scorch is only an optimal cycle with Empowered Arcane Missiles. The spreadsheet basicly confirmed my gut feeling that a 40/21 build without Empowered Arcane Missiles (the build I'm using) has an optimal cycle of AB * 3/Scorch * 2/Fireball up until the point where mana becomes the big problem. If I have mana issues, Scorch with Fireball on Clearcast and a single AB is the optimal rotation.

 

magnetic

It works great, I prefer it to scorch. I also find, that I do more damage over all because of the threat reduction, I begin dps much sooner without pulling agro, and if I do get agro on trash, it is chilled so its quite easy to kite until the tank grabs it or its dead.

 

Evalara

Agreed 100%. AB AB FB FB is a great cycle for maintaining damage output while keeping threat low.

 

Stein

While good, it's still not quite as good as AB AB AM Scorch...right?

Arcane blast lover; champion of arcane specs everywhere!

 

Evalara

I'm still spending most of my time in 5mans and doing overworld quests, so fire specs are off the table.

 

Stein

Ah..that's cool. I thought i'd be gimped in pvp & solo pve (and a little 5man) with arc/fire, but slow & AP/PoM/Pyro make it viable. I handled an accidental 4 pull of same level mobs yesterday. Pulled with pyro/fireball and got 4. First nova'd, sheeped one, slowed 2nd, finished off the one i'd pulled then used AP/PoM/Pyro to burn down 4th one. I was amazed I lived.

I can also kite better with slow than with permafrost. Fewer mobs are immune to it (and pallies don't seem able to clense it? or are too noob to know what it is? hehe)

and there's nothing like dismount->slow fall->PoM/AP/Pyro->fireblast :D 2 shot someone in mid air the other day.

Arcane blast lover; champion of arcane specs everywhere!

 

Quixef

I am desperately in need of an up-to-date mage DPS spreadsheet, but have no idea in which of these gigantic threads that is. So please help me by posting a link, could you?

Nulli Secundus

 

Cat Astrophy

Is there an option to exclude certain buffs/debuffs so you can TC for certain raid compositions (heroics or KZ)?

I must be cruel only to be kind;
Thus bad begins, and worse remains behind.
--William Shakespeare (The Drama King)

 

Zeku

This spreadsheet is very impressive, thanks! I added in all my variations of heavy arcane/light fire and tried it with various stats.

One thing that's puzzling me is removing incinerate and improved scorch is only resulting in about a 5% dps loss for the 'pure scorch' cycle at the top. This is true at +500 damage and +1000 damage, with typical stats, no buffs. It's true (on the spreadsheet, I mean) with low hit rating and high hit rating. Why are these talents having such a small effect?

 

Copernicus