Hashed a lot of the haste questions out in another thread, didn't address the bloodlust haste bonus but the sword / trinkets don't shorten the GCD, when they appear to shorten it, its just due to client server lag (so it appears I get 1.3 second scorches roughly when I lag)
I posted this theory in the other thread, not sure if it's valid or not, but...
I think haste effects do shorten the global cooldown. However, they are playing some kind of havoc with /stopcasting macros. I believe people that report redbar spell not ready on cast of short hasted spell are attempting to cancel the spell and cast the next during the client server lag window at the end of the spell.
Perhaps some different logic protects the global cooldown during a haste? (as chain casting 1.5 sec scorches with /stopcasting macro works just fine)
With Bloodlust and MQG I can reach 0.877 Arcane blasts and I have no problem with chain-casting, no GCD problems at all.
Correct me if I'm mistaken, but the myth of GCD being static 1.5second for most classes is just that, nothing but a myth. Instant Cast spells have a 1.5 GCD to prevent spamming, every other spell will be either 1.5 GCD or it's own casting time if it's shorter than 1.5
I've noticed "this spell is not ready yet" as well when scorching with quag's eye, I believe other people have said this earlier as well, while people have said MQG lowers the GCD... that might be an oversight on blizz's part since it is an older item, but it does the same effect which seems strange how one would affect it while the other wouldn't.
The question I had is, bloodlust is a straight % haste, correct? Or does it add haste rating? Could that possibly be the difference between items that give you haste rating (and don't lower the GCD) and bloodlust/heroism (that does lower it)?
Just tossing the idea out there. With .877 arcane blasts and casting lag, if the GCD is lowered by bloodlust's %, then you can easily not see any "this spell is not ready" messages.
The "That spell is not ready" error is so pronounced with Quag's Eye, that I hardly ever use it, unless I'm deep Fire, and Fireball is my primary nuke. My preferred PvE spec (33/28/0) uses Scorch and AB, and there, I definently do not like Quag.
I appreciate that we should not be able to obtain 0.1 cast Fireballs, by means of stacking. But at the same time, it feels like a huge oversight on Blizzard's part, that these wonderful (and very DPS increasing mechanics) do not apply to 1.5 cast spells.
And I did post earlier in this thread on the Quag's vs MQG, and while it was purely anecdotal, I would swear (though I am no longer as sure of it as I used to be) that popping MQG never got me "That spell is not ready", while for instance spamming AB at 1.5 second cast time.
The "That spell is not ready" error is so pronounced with Quag's Eye, that I hardly ever use it, unless I'm deep Fire, and Fireball is my primary nuke. My preferred PvE spec (33/28/0) uses Scorch and AB, and there, I definently do not like Quag.
I appreciate that we should not be able to obtain 0.1 cast Fireballs, by means of stacking. But at the same time, it feels like a huge oversight on Blizzard's part, that these wonderful (and very DPS increasing mechanics) do not apply to 1.5 cast spells.
And I did post earlier in this thread on the Quag's vs MQG, and while it was purely anecdotal, I would swear (though I am no longer as sure of it as I used to be) that popping MQG never got me "That spell is not ready", while for instance spamming AB at 1.5 second cast time.
Would be due to casting lag. I've never witnessed two spells with a cast time under 1.5seconds go off within 1.5seconds.
I would counter Teenee that Quag's eye is good enough that I spec deep Fire and use fireball as my primary nuke. We shall see down the road but for now 10/48/3 is outperforming 32/29 for my present uses (primarily 10/25 mans with some heroics 5s). I'd like to try to seriously play with an AB/scorch-or-fireball rotation but the haste proc screws with the timing a lot and swapping out my favorite trinket would make me too sad.
Although I'm assume that the previous 2 posters meant 33/28, in my testing it was higher damage with my gear by a fairly large margin over anything else (with a 8:1 rotation).
Although I'm assume that the previous 2 posters meant 33/28, in my testing it was higher damage with my gear by a fairly large margin over anything else (with a 8:1 rotation).
I'm sorry, do you mean 11/47/3 > 33/28 or 33/28 > 11/47/3. Not 100% clear =)
Vontre
i'm just wondering, why should someone take blazing speed or blast wave in a 33/28 specc.
you might think of a pvp specc, but i'm sure they are talking about a scorch specc combined with spell power.
for max damage, they maybe not even pick buring soul for aggro management and use 2 pieces of t4 for not beeing interruptable. could looking like something. For pvp i would pick some complete different talents like that.
I'm sorry i can't tell you what is the "best" dps specc. Some friends claim arc/fire with scorch/fireblast circle to be the best, other swear on their good old deepfire fireball spam.
Mind Mastery is "only" 150 spelldmg at 600 int, and you have to put more points into some arc talents that won't push your damage directly or much (+10% crit on clearcast is e.g. possible) but u will lose 2% more firedmg from fire power or 2% crit from critical mass for every point more in arc tree, just to get the extra damage. every point of spelldmg increase your overall dps at let's say 1000 base by how much?
for 40/21 you have to drop some more talents in fire tree, which are supposed to be kicked? Master of Elements? Imp Fire Blast? Incineration? Imp Scorch?
7% more dmg caused, 6% more crit vs 10% more crit on a clearcast and 100 till 150 spelldmg (wasn't crit the intended idea of the scorch/spell power build to substain ignite and crit allmost all the time on high dpm or high dps with scorch/fireblast cycle, was it?)
Mind Mastery is "only" 150 spelldmg at 600 int, and you have to put more points into some arc talents that won't push your damage directly or much (+10% crit on clearcast is e.g. possible) but u will lose 2% more firedmg from fire power or 2% crit from critical mass for every point more in arc tree, just to get the extra damage.
The thing with Mind Mastery is, that Arcane Blast scales extremely well with +dmg, as it's a 2.5sec nuke that benefits 2.5/3.5 of all the +dmg and still gets cast times under 2sec. For scorch / FB spam I'd rather take something else.
Im saying that you wouldn't ever spec 33/28 unless it was for pvp. 40 arcane is straight-up better for single target direct damage.
Using your own spreadsheet with my gear, 33/28 outpreforms 40 arcane by about 120 dps.
Also in practice it outpreforms it as well, for I wear a Blade of Wizardry, and Quag's eye in pve for fireball spam.
EDIT: It is 5/5 mind mastery (+140ish dmg) + 1/3 arcane potency (~1% crit) vs 1/3 playing with fire (1% dmg) + 3/3 critical mass (6% crit) + 3/5 firepower (6% dmg)
Fireball outscales a blast rotation on anyfight over ~4 minutes, and scales even moreso with buffs because all of it is % damage versus 40 arcane's relatively static damage.
Last edited by Quixotic : 03/18/07 at 1:21 AM.
Reason: wrong talent name :(
Using your own spreadsheet with my gear, 33/28 outpreforms 40 arcane by about 120 dps.
Also in practice it outpreforms it as well, for I wear a Blade of Wizardry, and Quag's eye in pve for fireball spam.
EDIT: It is 5/5 mind mastery (+140ish dmg) + 1/3 arcane potency (~1% crit) vs 1/3 playing with fire (1% dmg) + 3/3 critical mass (6% crit) + 3/5 firepower (6% dmg)
Fireball outscales a blast rotation on anyfight over ~4 minutes, and scales even moreso with buffs because all of it is % damage versus 40 arcane's relatively static damage.
What stats/settings are you using? It must be radically different to obtain such a different result. Unless you're just looking at the fireball number, which would be silly because the arcane blast cycle has come out top dps by a good margin...
...unless I increase the time index of the fight. Ok so, the cycle becomes pretty pathetic when you push it up to 5 minutes. The problem here is, the calculated time index for fireball spam is, with my gear, around 2.5 minutes. The cycle is always more mana efficient, so if you CAN maintain fireball for a long fight, due to frequent breaks or what have you, then you can also maintain a steady ramping arcane blast cycle for more dps.
So any scenario I can create in which fireball spam with 33/28 does more dps than a mind mastery arcane blast cycle, it's also telling me fireball will run me oom before the encounter is over. From what I'm seeing you would have to have an extreme variation in spell damage and intellect in order for 33/28 to do more dps in actual use: maybe 1100+ spell damage and less than 400 int.
What stats/settings are you using? It must be radically different to obtain such a different result. Unless you're just looking at the fireball number, which would be silly because the arcane blast cycle has come out top dps by a good margin...
...unless I increase the time index of the fight. Ok so, the cycle becomes pretty pathetic when you push it up to 5 minutes. The problem here is, the calculated time index for fireball spam is, with my gear, around 2.5 minutes. The cycle is always more mana efficient, so if you CAN maintain fireball for a long fight, due to frequent breaks or what have you, then you can also maintain a steady ramping arcane blast cycle for more dps.
So any scenario I can create in which fireball spam with 33/28 does more dps than a mind mastery arcane blast cycle, it's also telling me fireball will run me oom before the encounter is over. From what I'm seeing you would have to have an extreme variation in spell damage and intellect in order for 33/28 to do more dps in actual use: maybe 1100+ spell damage and less than 400 int.
I have 1030 spelldamage, with 350ish unbuffed int in my PvE gear (before 4/5 arcane mind)
Has anyone compared Mage single target DPS to that of Warlocks? It seems to me like 41/0/20 destrolocks outperform 40/21 firemages even on single targets. It's kind of depressing so hopefully someone can set me straight.
03/16/07, 1:10 PM
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