Zurgat

The AEP thing is pretty minor anyway, it can wait until you have the flametongue as well

This assumes slice and dice does not affect the actual damage output i think?
Boss resists would be 16-17%, unless it's affected by hit chance. (doubt it, but you never know untill it's tested)

A 2.6 speed weapon would be 38,8 damage per hit then.
38,8 / 2.6 = 14,923 dps. Interesting, could it be a flat dps value?
Add 30% from Slice and dice and it becomes ~19,4 dps. (not including instant attacks)

Windfury gives me ~124 dps, and scales very well with gear.
Grave of Air gives me ~50 dps, and scales marginally due to the mostly flat attack power bonus + crit.
Instant poison ~25 dps. (Deadly gives less on mainhand)

So, it seems GoA+FT(~69.4) or GoA+IP(~75) would still not come close to WF(~124), as expected.

However, does anyone know if Flametongue scales with +spelldamage(from the shaman)?
Or would that only apply to his self-buffs?

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Ellos

I've build the Flametongue totem, but I'm not sure I've build it right. I've never seen this Totem and don't know how it works. At the moment I'm around 20DPS with a 1,8 Speed Dagger. Slower Weapons will give more DPS. And of course I've no Buffs for the Totem at the moment but I don't believe that the DPS goes over 40 DPS.

 

Zurgat

If you include instant attacks, then spamming sinister strike would allow more damage then spamming backstab with daggers would. (In theory anyway)

Very rough calculations
Assuming 15x SS per minute with a 2.6 sec sword :
: 14.923 dps from white attacks.
: 15*(14.923*2.6=38,8) / 60 = 9.7 dps from instant attacks.
Resulting in about ~24,623 dps.

Where a 1.8 sec dagger would:
: 14.923 dps from white attacks.
: 12*(14.923*1.8=26,86) / 60 = 5,37 dps from instant attacks.
Resulting in about ~20,29 dps

Combat potency and ruthlessness will also greatly affect the number of attacks per minute, and thus the dps output.

There are a lot of unknown variables though... could be nice to bring a shaman along to blasted lands and have some testing.
: Does it proc from Eviscerate?
: What does it scale with?
: Is the damage range affected by haste?
: Does swordspec proc Flametongue?
: Can it crit?
: Can it be resisted?
: Is the resist rate affected by +hit?

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Kaxig

I respecced out of 15/41/5 to 41/20 and I am really loving so far.
Playing in a very casual guild (Gruul and Kara cleared 1,5 month ago or so) that just started working on voidreaver and in SSC I am looking for information on poison immune bosses to see if my specc will be viable or not.

So the question is to any of the very good progressed rogues lurking this forum: What bosses are immune to poisons from Gruul-> Illidan making mutilate a no-no while working on the encounter.

The ones I have come up searching here / bosskillers are:

-Hydross
-Voidreaver
-Vashj phase 2 elementals. (I dont know if it gimps me alot or just slight since dont know much about the fight)

 

Ellos

It's all in yet

At the moment calc is dmg/sec*fullresist*hitmainhand*Haste+dmg/sec*MHSpeed*insthit*fullresist

should be come nearly.

 

• tsigo

Vashj just depends on your guild's strategy. We put melee on the Naga Elites, and they're not immune. Aside from that, Tidalvess in the Karathress encounter drops Poison Cleansing Totem, but Improved Poisons should negate that pretty much. The weapons in Phase 2 of Kael'thas are immune, but I think that covers everything.

 

◊ Malan

Flametongue Totem is a 100% proc on every successful melee hit - if you hit the mob, you get a proc. Always. The damage is normalized to weapon speed - fast weapons that hit more often will do less dmg per proc, slower weapons hitting less frequently will have a larger dmg per proc. Now also remember that if an Enhance shaman has specced into Elemental Weapons he gets a 6%/12% bonus to the damage from Flametongue (and the same bonus to the AP on Windfury Totem).

Not sure on the Eviscerate, I'd have to check to make sure, but off the top of my head I want to say yes, since it procs off every hit which should include instants.

The FlameTongue Totem damage doesn't scale with anything - its constant, set in stone, same as the AP bonus from WindFury. The shaman weapon imbue FlameTongue Weapon scales with spell damage.

Swordspec should proc it, again the tooltip says that successful melee hits proc the dmg.

Yes it can crit, and be resisted. On lvl 73 mobs it gets resisted often enough that its quite noticeable.

As far as +hit goes, the resists should only be affected by +spell dmg, but I'm not certain if the shaman would need to be wearing it, or the affected players in the group - and I'm also not certain that the Totem is affected by it at all.

Vyktianity already has over 75 billion followers. The first verse in his book "Gift of the Wild" is "In the beginning Vyk cast lifebloom and then maul."

 

Ellos

I think it only crits with spellcrit, so it's not important for a rogue.

Same Talent?

 

Zurgat

Very useful reply Malan, cheers.

Melee hit chance should increase the number of procs then, and spell hit might affect the resist, but no sane rogue will be carrying that. I somewhat doubt it's affected by the caster's gear since the totem is a seperate entity.

Is the crit chance a default 5% or affected by the caster / wielder's crit?
It probably works the same as resists. (e.g. no effect other than default values due to totems having no gear)


Yes, same talent : http://www.thottbot.net/s29193 , but different effect.

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◊ Malan

I'm not too certain about the crit chance, I'm going to assume its a base crit rate and not based on the caster since I know for sure that the totem damage isn't affected by the shaman's spell damage gear. But yes on the shaman weapon imbue the crit rate is determined by spell crit.

And yes, the Elemental Weapons talent is a single talent that gives a bonus to both WFT and FTT.

So what you guys are looking at is just a constant damage bonus that ignores armor but can be resisted. No idea what the scaling is in relation to weapon speed, I don't think anyone has ever done any serious examination of it. The shaman community really on focuses on the weapon imbue since its something we can scale with our gear, and the advantages of windfury eclipse this totem.

Vyktianity already has over 75 billion followers. The first verse in his book "Gift of the Wild" is "In the beginning Vyk cast lifebloom and then maul."

 

• Disquette

Since healthstones crit based on the rogue's crit rate, and not the warlock's, I'd assume that Malan is correct. The only time I'd see healthstones critting regularly as a rogue was on Loatheb.

Meh, maybe I'll take a look at it. As long as it's linear, it shouldn't be a problem.

----- sig ---------------
Discoepfeand - rogue / Disquette - shaman
A stormstrike / shocks /watershield timer-bar addon: http://www.curse.com/downloads/details/9729/
"Moogle has mentioned this in passing a few times but never elaborated on it. Perhaps we can entice him to respond." - Malan

 

Cosa

I think it belongs here:

My guild is currently on start of Tier5 with successful every week Gruul/Mag farming, however after yesterday's Void Reaver kill I have noticed slight loss of DPS on Void Reaver due bleed/poison immunity, how to find/measure optimum CP usage for this fights, Hydross is also one of things that comes into my mind, any suggestions?

 

Zurgat

Spelling aside, if you go to this link : http://rogue.raidcal.com/ and download the latest version, you should be able to disable rupture and see your optimal dps cycle.
Put a sharpening stone on your offhand instead of a poison.

Other than that, there isn't much difference from your normal cycles, if you're a mutilate rogue then you are partially crippled on mobs that are immune to poisons. (hydross and void reaver for example)

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Gogge

There seems to be something affecting the proc rate of WF totem. Regular PvE attacks, SND, Dragonspine, AR, BF, etc. no Improved Poison.

Using a 2.6 speed MH the lowest time between WF procs I got was 1.4 seconds, five below 1.7 seconds. Using 20% Instant Poison on the MH gave two "double" procs, instant proccing from SS at the same time and 13 procs below 1.7 seconds.
Using a 1.3 speed MH the lowest time between WF procs I got was 0.625 seconds, 23 below 1.7 seconds. Using 20% Instant Poison on the MH gave a lowest time of 0.016 seconds, 52 below 1.7 seconds.

It's not all that extensive (about 10 minutes per test), but something seems to be limiting the amount of procs you get from WF and a straight 20% proc modeling is most likely wrong. (logs)

 

Igo

just curious if anyone knows of a resource that lists posion immune, rupture immune, etc. mobs from Kara on up

excellent work btw...long time user

 

Ellos

http://rogue.raidcal.com/

2.3.0g (ellos)
added
Flametongue totem
Cold Blood (only Evis/Envenom)
Allow Envnom Button
fixed a bug Envenom taken as finisher despite DPS-loose
Curse of the Elements
Shadow weaving
Misery (hope I hadn't forget any Buff or Enchant)

changed
Blood Fenzy (should work better now)

fixed
AEP, AP and STR had been broken in the last version
Merciless Gladiator's Bonus
Slayer 4p Bonus for buffed DPS and Nextstat
Deathmantle 4p Bonus now affected by combat potency

removed
Thilste Tea on unbuffed DPS
Flamecap on unbuffed DPS


About Stormstrike, I havn't build it in yet. Maybe I'll do this when I build more envenom cycle but the chance to get this buff is very low so it'll maybe a 1-2% buff.

This time I tested the AEP calc

I think I'll need to build a new page in the next time. Very annoying to add a new version.

 

• astearns

Thanks for maintaining this, Ellos. 2.3.0g is the first of yours I've downloaded, and I like the Save DPS button - that button does what I've been doing manually for quite a while on the other sheets.

One thing I immediately added was this - on the Gear_Buffs sheet:

Cell E7: =D6-D7
Cell F7: =E7/D6 (formatted as a percentage)

And the same to the cells to the right of the buffed saved DPS cell.

This shows me the difference between the current total DPS and the saved DPS and the percentage change immediately, without having to use the copy buttons and go to a different sheet. If I want to save the change I can then use your copy buttons, but most of the time I just want to look at the delta and switch back.

 

◊ Sarutobi

It's been awhile since I've been Elemental on my shaman, but IIRC Call of Flame has no effect on the damage added by Flametongue Totem. It only increases damage done by fire totems themselves, not buffs that fire totems provide.

 

Rethan

Is the Warpspring Coil, or Tsunami Talisman clear cut better anymore in the second trinket slot? Spreadsheet modeled them at nearly the same for me, is this correct now?

 

Rhiktif

From what I understand, its DST>TT>WS if that helps...

 

Raabelgaard

Sorry for the noob inquiry but is the bleedo link the only way to access the spreadsheet? If so any idea as to when it will become available again, I got an error msg when clicking through.

Ty.

 

thingol

http://rogue.raidcal.com/

You should try a search next time.

http://armory.mmo-champion.com.nyud....t&s5=Dodge&v=2

 

tucciim

are you combat dagger or swords? as combat dagger instant on my MH gave me significantly more dps then WF. this was on the 2.2.6a sheet. Just want to make sure i am not doing something wrong, i am new to the spreadsheet greatness.

 

• koaschten