Rogue DPS Spreadsheet - Page 102

Sokkou · 05/10/07, 5:25 PM

Can someone model Heartrazor correctly?

Word on the street is its an 8% proc off any attack.

Noctral · 05/10/07, 5:36 PM

Originally Posted by laforce

Hi guys, I was trying to understand some combat logs and I dont get wtf is with the timeframe between the attacks.. the attacks below are all offhand attacks, I took off my MH.

Offhand speed: 1.6, no buffs, no mongoose, no haste trinkets. Pure 1.6.

5/10 11:32:36.765 You hit Teromoth for 167.
5/10 11:32:37.687 You hit Teromoth for 131.
5/10 11:32:38.328 You hit Teromoth for 138.
5/10 11:32:39.796 You crit Teromoth for 269.
5/10 11:32:40.109 You hit Teromoth for 152.
5/10 11:32:41.640 You hit Teromoth for 132.
5/10 11:32:41.640 You hit Teromoth for 145.
5/10 11:32:43.421 You hit Teromoth for 149.
5/10 11:32:44.828 You crit Teromoth for 272.

Why do the attacks all have different delay between each other.. and at 11.32.41.640 I had 2 attacks at the same time.. wtf.. is this lag factor or somethin?

Taking off your mainhand weapon just makes you punch things with your fist, so I'm guessing it's something more like this:

5/10 11:32:36.765 You hit Teromoth for 167. (OH)
5/10 11:32:37.687 You hit Teromoth for 131. (MH)
5/10 11:32:38.328 You hit Teromoth for 138. (OH - 1.563s from last OH hit)
5/10 11:32:39.796 You crit Teromoth for 269. (MH - 2.109s from last MH hit)
5/10 11:32:40.109 You hit Teromoth for 152. (OH - 1.781s from last OH hit)
5/10 11:32:41.640 You hit Teromoth for 132. (MH - 1.844s from last MH hit)
5/10 11:32:41.640 You hit Teromoth for 145. (OH - 1.531s from last OH hit)
etc..

Makes more sense since all numbers are within 200ms of what they should be. (fists are 2.0 speed)

♦ Lrigatonmai · 05/10/07, 5:38 PM

Originally Posted by laforce

I didnt have anything on my MH... and my lag at that time was around 250ms.. believe me or not, that's amazing latency for me, heh!

Im gonna do some more testing tonight... later!

If you had nothing in your MH than you're probably seeing your unarmed swings from your main hand.

• Aldriana · 05/10/07, 5:38 PM

Originally Posted by Sokkou

Can someone model Heartrazor correctly?

Word on the street is its an 8% proc off any attack.

I'd be somewhat surprised if the proc rate is actually 8%, but assuming it is:

Typical dagger rogue launches ~1 MH attack per second with a 1.8 speed dagger.

Thus, at an 8% proc rate it will proc .08 times per second

Hence, the uptime will be something like 1-(1-.08)^10 = 56%

Thus, the effective benefit is rougly equal to .56 times 250 AP = static 140 AP.

If true, it would mean that Heartrazor crushes Fang of Vashj in the dps department.

Xizenta · 05/11/07, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by Gogge

I've tried TargetArmor for a while and it shows, effective:

Attumen: 8312
Midnight: 7531
Moroes: 7112
Maiden: 6065
....

Wow, this changes everything.
Envenom officially better than eviscerate now?

koaschten · 05/11/07, 3:35 AM

Please remember that usually you got 5 Sunder Armor on a Mob, removing 2600 armor. If you have a Druid, Faerie Fire will remove another 610 armor. Unless you are Mutilate specced you should rupture anyway due to the higher average dmg compared to eviscerate with mangle on the target.

Xizenta · 05/11/07, 3:44 AM

Originally Posted by koaschten

Please remember that usually you got 5 Sunder Armor on a Mob, removing 2600 armor. If you have a Druid, Faerie Fire will remove another 610 armor. Unless you are Mutilate specced you should rupture anyway due to the higher average dmg compared to eviscerate with mangle on the target.

I think his values were often collected with sunders or faerie fires on the mobs.

feanor831 · 05/11/07, 3:52 AM

I am struggling to find the posts on this and any other forum relating the exact Sword specialization changes as currently implemented on the PTR. What exaclty has been changed? Were there any tests done on whether the reset on main hand swing has been removed? And whether the sword procs are considered to be specials and not suffer from glancing blow penalty?

In order to compare DPS between fists and swords, can one test sword specialization DPS as a true extra attack? Doing this and averaging it over 5 min with weapons

MH average hit: 500 @ 2.6
OH average hit: 216 @ 1.5

Sword specced rogues will do a lot more DPS than fists and it isn’t as close as it used to be. Will this effect bring a dramatic change in PvP as well if the DPS is as dramatic as this? Or am I completely off the ball here?

Lace · 05/11/07, 4:24 AM

This is a silly question, but just wanted to be sure. I know a warrior can not apply sunder armor if expose armor is put up by a rogue; but can he apply devestate to renew sunder armor if expose armor is up? I am pretty sure the answer is "no" but thought I would ask because if you could, it would be a massive DPS increase =P.

Edit: Nvm, they probably don't stack in the first place, making the question mute

Zoro · 05/11/07, 6:50 AM

Shouldn't be that hard to add +3% crit damage. You just need to add an IF statement based around the Diamond to the crit damage cells along the lines of *IF(Diamond,1.03,1).

I'd do it myself but my Excel is borked and I'm off out for the weekend

Lukon · 05/11/07, 12:41 PM

Hi all,

I have a few questions regarding haste modelled by the spreadsheet (for reference I am using version 2.2.4). My "Buffed DPS" sheet, from cells L31 to M35, is as follows:

SnD Base      130.00%
Blade Flurry  156.00%
Perm. Haste   111.39%
	
avg haste	     37.04%

Firstly, why is the blade flurry formula essentially 1.2 * SnD? It seems to imply BF is always active. I would have expected something like 1 + (0.2 * 15 / 120) = 1.025 * SnD. This cell is in turn referenced by the "Cycle Energy Damage" column of the "Buffed DPS Cycles" sheet (J23-J31). Here, it is present in the factor: bblfl-sndfact = 1.56 - 1.3, which again appears to assume BF is always active.

Secondly, why is average haste calculated to be 37%? With SnD and the Dragonspine Trophy alone I would expect at least 1.3 * 1.11 = 44% haste.

finally, concerning combat potency in cells J1-L2 of the "Buffed Cycles" sheet. The energy per second formula in cell L1 uses 'Buffed DPS'!$M$33 as the OH haste factor, which in turn points to the permanent haste value of 111%. Why doesn't combat potency take into account SnD and other haste effects?

Backpain · 05/11/07, 1:33 PM

I could be wrong, but I think procs and buffs of this type are averaged out over the duration of the cycles and then converted to a permanant haste percentage.

For example, on-use attack power trinkets show up as adding a flat amount of AP, even though they are not active through the whole fight.

On another note, playing with the spreadsheet has me a little confused this morning. I have not capped hit, yet the spreadsheet tells me I would get more dps trading out certain items with hit, for others with greater stats/AP. (spymistress bracers vs bracers of maliciousness; veterans musket vs sunfury bow, etc)

I guess there are exceptions to the "+hit adds dps all the way up to the hit cap" rule? Perhaps I'm overlooking the ilvls of the items?

pf · 05/11/07, 2:13 PM

Originally Posted by Lukon

Hi all,

I have a few questions regarding haste modelled by the spreadsheet (for reference I am using version 2.2.4). My "Buffed DPS" sheet, from cells L31 to M35, is as follows:

SnD Base      130.00%
Blade Flurry  156.00%
Perm. Haste   111.39%
	
avg haste	     37.04%

Firstly, why is the blade flurry formula essentially 1.2 * SnD? It seems to imply BF is always active. I would have expected something like 1 + (0.2 * 15 / 120) = 1.025 * SnD. This cell is in turn referenced by the "Cycle Energy Damage" column of the "Buffed DPS Cycles" sheet (J23-J31). Here, it is present in the factor: bblfl-sndfact = 1.56 - 1.3, which again appears to assume BF is always active.

Blade flurry is modeled assuming that it is always used in conjunction with SND. This might not be the case, but to model otherwise would be a pain.

Secondly, why is average haste calculated to be 37%? With SnD and the Dragonspine Trophy alone I would expect at least 1.3 * 1.11 = 44% haste.

Average Haste is calculated from taking the results of the cycle sheet. Look to that sheet to see if there might be some SND downtime.

finally, concerning combat potency in cells J1-L2 of the "Buffed Cycles" sheet. The energy per second formula in cell L1 uses 'Buffed DPS'!$M$33 as the OH haste factor, which in turn points to the permanent haste value of 111%. Why doesn't combat potency take into account SnD and other haste effects?

How about searching for references to $L$1 throughout the rest of that sheet. You might find out why it is the way it is, and learn more about how the cycle sheet works. In short, it is done in this manner to prevent circular references as you cannot calculate snd uptime without knowing what cycle you are using.

Anyway, looking back through the last few pages, I find it odd that blizzard would adjust how sword spec is treated now. If they make it proc combat potency, then it is clearly superior to fist spec. Also, if it no longer has a swing timer reset for offhand/special procs, then its also clearly superior. Anyway, if someone decides to model the new version into the sheet, then special care would be needed to make sure its done correctly with the next-stat sheet, or you will end up with lots of bogus +1 values. Also, the +3% crit gem would not be hard to model, just make a variable and carefully replace all crit *2 values in the sheet. The hard part would be making sure to find them all as there are probably like 50 places where it is used, and no easy way to search for them as there was never a need to change it since our talents/gear previously had nothing of this sort.

Aiva · 05/11/07, 2:16 PM

Hello,

Was playing with the spreadsheet a bit and got some questions :

1. Is it true that the +4 agi / +4 hit gem is best for all those red and yellow socket slots ? I was happy with my +8 hit ones :P

2. The spreadsheet shows the optimal snd cycle as 5s/5e for my build ( combat swords 19/42) , i am a huge fan of 3s/5s/5e cycle and wanna know what makes 5s/5e superior to 3s/5s/5e.

Thanks in advance.

Cloak · 05/11/07, 2:28 PM

Originally Posted by Aiva

Hello,

Was playing with the spreadsheet a bit and got some questions :

1. Is it true that the +4 agi / +4 hit gem is best for all those red and yellow socket slots ? I was happy with my +8 hit ones :P

2. The spreadsheet shows the optimal snd cycle as 5s/5e for my build ( combat swords 19/42) , i am a huge fan of 3s/5s/5e cycle and wanna know what makes 5s/5e superior to 3s/5s/5e.

Thanks in advance.

1) Regarding gems, it's what the spreadsheet tells you. I needed +hit all the way to the hit cap, and then started to focus on AP.

2) For one, you're using Eviscerate slightly more frequently with 5s/5e.

Secondly, there's no more than 10 wasted energy on finishers with 5s/5e while 3s/5s/5e will be wasting 25 energy per cycle on average.

Since they both keep 100% SnD uptime and basically similar frequency of Sinister Strikes, 5s/5e is clearly superior.