str

Hello to the Jerks!

I've just started getting familiar with the mechanics and theorycraft of my class, so I checked this whole thread and started toying around with the DPS Spreadsheet - there were a few quite surprising discoveries I made about my gear, talents, and possibilities, so thanks for that!

One thing I'm not quite sure about at the moment is Murder. I had a discussion with a fellow rogue on another board where I posted some numbers comparing Imp. Evis and Murder - he pointed out that by only changing Murder 0 -> 2 the 'melee dps' changed this way:

251,95 -> 262,13
more than 4%!

no other value or gear was changed, only a number. if you take a blank, 2.3.6 sheet, remove Murder from talents then take it again, it's the same:

241,91 -> 251,68
a bit over 4%

what's the reason behind this? shouldn't it be 2%?

 

Ellos

Well, it was calculated twice, will be fixed in the next version.

 

Ellos

The problem is, the absorb is not linear.

Formulas:Magical resistance - WoWWiki, the Warcraft wiki

Don't know which Value i should take. Maybe a linear value is the best.

 

Zerazar

Hello. Firstly I'll give you many thanks for making my life easier... And secondly I have a request.

I updated to 2.3.6 yesterday and played a bit around with it, and one thing I miss is being able to check the tables of everything. That be cycles/rotations and stuff like seeing how hard move X hits for in average etc. because I used it a lot and made my own newbie-tables out of it.

Would it be possible to let the tables be shown somewhere?

Post script: I love the new upgrade gear feature in particular, was just what I needed.

 

sp00n

2 things I've noticed.
I downloaded a fresh copy of 2.3.6. First I did set the talents to equal mine, and when trying to set Mutilate to zero, I encountered an error. Since you're also from Germany, I can post the error message without causing confusion.


The second thing is that in the AEP section, the values for AP and Strength are still the same. Toggling Blessing of Kings changes them, but they still remain at the same value, although Strength should yield 10% more due to the blessing.


And one more feature request:
Similiar as you calculate DPS upgrades for the equipment, you could calculate the real AEP value for the gems.
Currently they are set up as user inputted data, and using the DPS upgrade formulae you already have you could automatically calculate them as well.


This was the first version after quite some time (last was 2.2.7) and I really like the changes you've made so far.

 

Waylaid

Only noticed 1 thing in 2.3.6

Cloak section has no gem selection area.

The Upgrade update is fantastic. Thanks

 

Ellos

Mmmh, never had this bug, maybe it would help if I can get your talents and equip or better a copy of your sheet.

Will look at the AEP, there were often bugs in the past and it would be possible that I've taken a wrong value.

For the next Version there will be a Upgrade Search for Gems and Enchants.

And now there is a rounding error. Well it won't be 100% accurate. The problem is it searches only 1 Item or Gem at a time. Would I change the search then there will be 59^3 possibilities, for each item with 3 Gem Slots. The needed time will be to huge.

 

Dontmindme

The resistance is still linear though. They are just pointing out that it takes an initial 200 resistance (at 60) to half the damage and 100 more resistance halves it again (to 75% total absorb). It is the same formula presented on wowwiki that I am using, just updated for level 70.

In essence, the true damage increase would be (for a 25 nature resistance debuff):
75/14*(75/14/100+[full resist])/[full resist]
or as in the spreadsheet now:
75/14*(75/14/100+0.83)/(0.83)=5.7029% increase to poison damage if Thunderfury is up 100% of the time on the target. Obviously, one will need to decide if that is actually the case, or estimate a Thunderfury debuff uptime to accurately represent this.

But, for all intents and purposes, you just need to apply the (75/14)% [5.357%] (potentially modified by TF uptime) as a straight decrease to the poison resist percent and it should automatically work as described on wowwiki under absorb as a curved increase to damage. This would theoretically stack with the improved poison talents and would actually be a buff to envenom poison specs.

In essence, applying the linear function at that point, creates a damage curve as it ultimately gets calculated.

 

sp00n

Well that's the point.
It's a completely fresh copy, nothing changed at all. When changing Mutilate from 1 to 0 at the very first action, it still pops up.

Interestingly, I can set Mutilate back to 1 without an error, but after that setting it to 0 again will pop up the message also again.

I'm using Excel XP (2002) SP3 (10.6501.6714), Windows XP, if that helps any.

 

Arioche

Thank you. Im helping Ellos tweak it a bit, including letting it work on your gems and enchants as well. Im trying to decide if its feasible to let it calculate the combined gems, instead of the individual gems. The problem would be excessive calculation time, since theres a maximum of 59^3 gem combinations in an item.

Doh now i notice he posted saying the same thing

 

Cloze

Hey guys,
Great job keeping this spreadsheet running. /cheer.

Anyways, I was wondering, since the spreadsheet shows the Optimal CP Usage for length boss fights. What the optimal cp usage would be for trash mobs, (i.e. 10-25 sec kills). Is there an option for this?

Thanks in advance. =).

 

Siq

If you plan on doing so, i suggest reducing the problem to the "good" blue and above gems. For max dps you won't put +12 stam, dodge or strength gems in your items (Maybe even +crit gems can be kicked, too, at least for combats they are crap anyways).

Another possibility to reduce the size of the problem would be some sort of selection, like:
only blue gems
up to heroic gems
up to hyjal/bt gems

And don't forget the meta gem reqs :>



There aren't too many situations where 'quick trash' dps is really important. Just get your snd running and don't use dots 3 secs befor the mob dies. Imho, its quite senseless to model something like short fights in a raid dps spreadsheet.

 

Cloze

I guess you have a point. Thanks bro.

Also I have a further question. Currently my hit rating is at 180 ingame (low I know, getting gear/gem upgrades). The spreadsheet calculates it as a total of 259 (a whopping 79 coming from talents.) Does this total sum count towards the ~308 hit rating sweet spot. If so, you would only really need to get 229 hit rating (which is surprisingly easy to maintain.) But I have seen too many rogues with over 230 hit rating so the sweet spot might be ~308 (and then add talents?). Anyways guys, thanks in advance again.

 

Fifty

Got a couple of things on my mind and reading back i would like some clarification, you've access to my character, so correct me if im wrong.

First off calculating weapon rating is what i began at, trying to get to the bottom of howmuch +hit one rating point provided, recently after i've looted my first +dagger skill item, and begain stacking skill with latter ones, using the latest spreadsheets as my guideline. What bugged me is not being able to understand which way would be the right one to resolve my issue, and since the spreadsheet modeled, and still does? model one rating point as 0.04 hit it was not accurate as to what data i had from after raids.

I'm a dagger rogue with precision, WEX, 274 hit rating and +56 dagger skill rating, effectively +14 dagger skill, which should by my sence land on 274 + 14*1.58 = 296 hit rating.

Then there is a way i noticed in some posts and people editing their current spreadsheets with weapon skill rating giving +0.1 hit per point, opposing to 0.04? I'm not an excel guy, i've no idea what the fields say, the thing confuses me, so what i think is that im probably taking the right way but there is another completely same way to calculate that i don't understand? Why even model hit rating in the first place, when the game rounds off items by whole numbers? And some rating gets 'lost', untill you get another item and perhaps the new number rounds off the whole thing to use up all the hit rating, exactly translating itself to weapon skill.

Edit: @ Ellos, a lot of talk going on about 2.2.7 version which i simply fail to find, i take it's not out yet?

Howmuch wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck would chuck wood?

 

Ticia

The latter, 308 hit rating from gear alone. The 79 in the spreadsheet is added in from the Precision talent, but if you include that in your calculations then the "sweet spot" for hit rating is 387 (assuming you also have Weapon Expertise).

 

Ellos

Okay, you got me, I'll make it this way

Uh, I've found the error. The problem is Cold Blood and Instants. Seems I haven't tested it good enough.

 

wranor

Looks like the problem was solved...had replied about the circular reference error when turning off mutilate.

 

Ellos

The Weapon skill rating will be change in the next Version.

Version 2.2.7 is an old version, the next version will be 2.3.7 and is still in work

 

Arioche

[quote=Siq;416561]If you plan on doing so, i suggest reducing the problem to the "good" blue and above gems. For max dps you won't put +12 stam, dodge or strength gems in your items (Maybe even +crit gems can be kicked, too, at least for combats they are crap anyways).

Another possibility to reduce the size of the problem would be some sort of selection, like:
only blue gems
up to heroic gems
up to hyjal/bt gems

And don't forget the meta gem reqs :>


Thats kind of along the lines of what I was thinking, Limiting it to blue gems, and also restricting it to single instances of Unique gems. Removing pure stamina gems is a good call since they automatically lower DPS, so are never a DPS upgrade.

Also I havent gotten as far as accounting for Meta gem requirements but except for the stamina/Stun resist one, any gem you compare that breaks the meta gem requirement, should be default lower your dps by more than any single gem could add.

Id have to get input from Ellos if hes aggreeable to adding come options checkboxes, if we want finer control of potential upgrades.

 

Ellos

Try it, when it works I think there is no problem.

 

Ellos

The cycle sheets? They are still there, they are only hidden

Format>Sheet>Unhide… (in Excel)

 

Ellos

Hu?
I've got no Problems with the Gems in Cloaks.

 

Ellos

At the moment I'll try to add Stormstrike - Thottbot World of Warcraft: Stormstrike

Well does Poison consumes this Buff.

I'll have to think how high the chance is to get this buff. It comes all 10 secons (maybe, don't know if shamans it realy use it) and the next 2 nature hits will get this buff.

So the chance is realy low to get this buff.

Maybe ever 5 buff will be reachable? Anyone had an idea?

 

Zerazar

Tyvm Wouldn't have figured that out myself xD

 

Zaniel

Stormstrike is really not worth modeling, in my opinion. As you said, it only lasts 10 seconds and has 2 buffs possible. Of that, the shaman himself is going to grab one (Earthshock), leaving one for everyone else to compete over... and often the shaman will try burning up the second charge again with another Earthshock if it's still there.

Stormstrike just isn't something a rogue should really get, and though it might boost Envenom damage (hah), it will more than likely get stolen by a poison proc or tick. Just don't waste your time, Ellos.