[top]IF(L51>0,E9*M51/E51,E4)+E13

Should be:

• QControl · 06/08/07, 2:19 PM

Originally Posted by LiteSabre

I couldn't really think of where to post this, so I decided to throw it up on this thread despite it not being sheet related, since the whole thread is pretty much about rogue DPS anyway. :P

Question specifically about the Kael'thas encounter:

Is it better for CDaggers to OH the legendary sword, or just stick with your normal OH dagger? I just fell in love with the haste effect the sword has, it just doesn't seem like there's that much difference between the ~120 DPS but slow (but with a haste proc the dagger doesn't have) sword to the Searing Sunblade I normally use.

No, it's not worth it because the weapons will not proc in your offhand.

Anddacin · 06/08/07, 2:34 PM

Originally Posted by QControl

No, it's not worth it because the weapons will not proc in your offhand.

Why not?

LiteSabre · 06/08/07, 2:36 PM

Originally Posted by QControl

No, it's not worth it because the weapons will not proc in your offhand.

Eh? No, I'm very sure that the haste buff was up all (or nearly all) of the time with the sword in my OH. I distinctly remember it because I was Gazed and had a sprint effect up while my sprint was on CD. The legendary sword/dagger does proc in the OH; though having not MHed the sword or OHed the dagger I have no idea how doing so effects the frequency of the proc.

• QControl · 06/08/07, 2:42 PM

Hmm, I know Wodin said he could not get the dagger to proc while offhanding it. I'll test it more next time we do Kael.

Pork · 06/08/07, 2:57 PM

Originally Posted by rj

Mih, you should read reply #2020 by Siq, there are numerous errors in your sheet Mih and Siq also changed sword spec.

I'de suggest using Siq's sheet.

Buffed DPS NextStat values in Siq's sheet are fubar'd. The calculations are fairly complicated and I haven't been able to figure out where it's getting messed up.

I also noticed that the Xs/5e sc cycles are incorrect on all recent sheet revisions. Cells D51 through D55 are using Eviscerate values instead of SnD values when calculating the adjusted SnD damage portion of the cycle.

Current D51 formula on Buffed Cycles sheet:

[top]IF(L51>0,E9*M51/E51,E4)+E13

Should be:

IF(L51>0,E4*M51/E51,E4)+E13

MasterDinadan · 06/08/07, 4:51 PM

Shiv is getting 2.4 normalization even when off-handing a dagger, and I'm somewhat confused about how Shiv's poison component is being handled. OH Temp Enchant goes up b about 50% when Shiv is selected, which is too much to account for a more efficient cycle, and not enough to account for all of Shiv's poison damage. It seems like the kind of number I would expect if Shiv had the same chance of proccing poison as any other attack.
At the same time, Shiv's average damage appears to have the instant poison included in it. The problem here is that this happens before armor reduction is applied, so the poison is getting reduced by armor when it should not be.

I'm not profficient enough with spreadsheets to do all of this myself... but I would just eliminate the IP component of Shiv's avg damage and throw all of it's procs into the OH Temp Enchant calculation (add the shivs/sec and the regular attack proc/sec)

mih · 06/08/07, 6:16 PM

http://www.savefile.com/files/792580
2.2.6a (2.2.6 based on 2.2.5c)

added
some new items
Haste Potion
Thistle Tea
boss debuffs (Sunder Armor, Faerie Fire, Curse of Recklessness)
Rod of the Sun King proc (12ppm)

changed
boss armor -> ~8600
Warp-Spring Coil (1,5ppm)
Darkmoon Card: Vengeance formula

rename
Talon of the Phoenix (OH) -> Claw of the Phoenix

Gogge · 06/08/07, 6:22 PM

Originally Posted by Anddacin

Based on paper's log, it doesn't look like offhand sword spec hits proc CPOT, and they use the OH damage range. I also didn't see any sword spec hits proccing more sword spec hits, but it was a quick glance.

From some quick tests in BL it shows that OH sword spec procs use the MH for the swing, and it procs MH poisons, seems like it's a "true" MH swing like the patch notes said. MH is a white 25 dps dagger:

6/8 23:55:57.906  You gain 1 extra attack through Sword Specialization.
6/8 23:55:57.906  You hit Servant of Allistarj for 335.
6/8 23:55:58.218  You hit Servant of Allistarj for 162.
6/8 23:55:58.234  You hit Servant of Allistarj for 160.
6/8 23:55:58.500  Your Wound Poison hits Servant of Allistarj for 65 Nature damage.
6/8 23:55:58.500  Your Wound Poison hits Servant of Allistarj for 65 Nature damage.

I didn't notice any double CPot procs, although it was a fairly short test. (log)

Anddacin · 06/08/07, 6:35 PM

Originally Posted by Gogge

From some quick tests in BL it shows that OH sword spec procs use the MH for the swing, and it procs MH poisons, seems like it's a "true" MH swing like the patch notes said. MH is a white 25 dps dagger:

6/8 23:55:57.906  You gain 1 extra attack through Sword Specialization.
6/8 23:55:57.906  You hit Servant of Allistarj for 335.
6/8 23:55:58.218  You hit Servant of Allistarj for 162.
6/8 23:55:58.234  You hit Servant of Allistarj for 160.
6/8 23:55:58.500  Your Wound Poison hits Servant of Allistarj for 65 Nature damage.
6/8 23:55:58.500  Your Wound Poison hits Servant of Allistarj for 65 Nature damage.

I didn't notice any double CPot procs, although it was a fairly short test. (log)

Something is weird then, because take a look at these couple of pulls from his log:

6/8 18:37:25.421 You gain 1 extra attack through Sword Specialization.
6/8 18:37:25.421 You hit Servant of Razelikh for 173.

6/8 18:39:01.671 You crit Servant of Razelikh for 353.
6/8 18:39:03.468 You gain 1 extra attack through Sword Specialization.
6/8 18:39:03.468 You hit Servant of Razelikh for 154.

6/8 18:39:12.203 You hit Servant of Razelikh for 156.
6/8 18:39:13.828 Servant of Razelikh hits you for 102.
6/8 18:39:13.828 You gain 1 extra attack through Sword Specialization.
6/8 18:39:13.828 You crit Servant of Razelikh for 366.

I believe he said he was using gladi's slicer mh/quickblade oh, and those sword spec hits are way out of range for the slicer.

Also, from your log:

6/8 23:49:09.562  You gain 1 extra attack through Sword Specialization.
6/8 23:49:09.578  You crit Servant of Allistarj for 460.
6/8 23:49:09.953  You hit Servant of Allistarj for 171.
6/8 23:49:09.953  Servant of Allistarj attacks. You parry.
6/8 23:49:10.187  You gain 15 Energy from Combat Potency.

The sword spec crit is out of range for your MH rondel, and in range for whatever offhand you had equipped.

Anddacin · 06/08/07, 6:36 PM

Originally Posted by Gogge

From some quick tests in BL it shows that OH sword spec procs use the MH for the swing, and it procs MH poisons, seems like it's a "true" MH swing like the patch notes said. MH is a white 25 dps dagger:

6/8 23:55:57.906  You gain 1 extra attack through Sword Specialization.
6/8 23:55:57.906  You hit Servant of Allistarj for 335.
6/8 23:55:58.218  You hit Servant of Allistarj for 162.
6/8 23:55:58.234  You hit Servant of Allistarj for 160.
6/8 23:55:58.500  Your Wound Poison hits Servant of Allistarj for 65 Nature damage.
6/8 23:55:58.500  Your Wound Poison hits Servant of Allistarj for 65 Nature damage.

I didn't notice any double CPot procs, although it was a fairly short test. (log)

Edit: nevermind, I couldn't see them for some reason.

Gogge · 06/08/07, 8:00 PM

Originally Posted by Anddacin

Also, from your log:

6/8 23:49:09.562  You gain 1 extra attack through Sword Specialization.
6/8 23:49:09.578  You crit Servant of Allistarj for 460.
6/8 23:49:09.953  You hit Servant of Allistarj for 171.
6/8 23:49:09.953  Servant of Allistarj attacks. You parry.
6/8 23:49:10.187  You gain 15 Energy from Combat Potency.

The sword spec crit is out of range for your MH rondel, and in range for whatever offhand you had equipped.

Yes, it's an OH crit triggering the MH swing, showing that it uses the MH for damage. As I only had a sword in the OH it's the only source of procs.

You gain..
Triggering Swing
Resulting Swing

6/8 23:47:08.656 You gain 1 extra attack through Sword Specialization.
6/8 23:47:08.656 You hit Servant of Allistarj for 295.
6/8 23:47:08.906 You hit Servant of Allistarj for 173.

6/8 23:48:05.953 You gain 1 extra attack through Sword Specialization.
6/8 23:48:05.968 You hit Servant of Allistarj for 304.
6/8 23:48:06.312 You hit Servant of Allistarj for 159.

For it to use the OH for proc swings it'd need to be two high damage hits.

mih · 06/08/07, 8:36 PM

Originally Posted by Gogge

I didn't notice any double CPot procs, although it was a fairly short test. (log)

6/8 01:35:20.843 You hit Servant of Allistarj for 410.
6/8 01:35:21.343 You gain 15 Energy from Combat Potency.
6/8 01:35:21.343 You gain 15 Energy from Combat Potency.
6/8 01:35:21.343 Your Mark of Conquest heals you for 95.
6/8 01:35:21.343 You hit Servant of Allistarj for 189.

6/8 01:35:29.390 Your Sword Specialization crits Servant of Allistarj for 966.
6/8 01:35:29.984 You gain 15 Energy from Combat Potency.
6/8 01:35:29.984 You gain 15 Energy from Combat Potency.
6/8 01:35:30.000 You hit Servant of Allistarj for 436.

6/8 01:42:08.625 Your Shiv hits Servant of Allistarj for 291.
6/8 01:42:09.234 You gain 15 Energy from Combat Potency.
6/8 01:42:09.234 You gain 15 Energy from Combat Potency.
6/8 01:42:09.421 Servant of Allistarj attacks. You dodge.

6/8 01:42:14.750 Your Shiv hits Servant of Allistarj for 259.
6/8 01:42:15.359 You gain 15 Energy from Combat Potency.
6/8 01:42:15.359 You gain 15 Energy from Combat Potency.
6/8 01:42:15.562 You hit Servant of Allistarj for 176.

Cloak · 06/08/07, 8:46 PM

Originally Posted by MasterDinadan

Shiv is getting 2.4 normalization even when off-handing a dagger, and I'm somewhat confused about how Shiv's poison component is being handled. OH Temp Enchant goes up b about 50% when Shiv is selected, which is too much to account for a more efficient cycle, and not enough to account for all of Shiv's poison damage. It seems like the kind of number I would expect if Shiv had the same chance of proccing poison as any other attack.
At the same time, Shiv's average damage appears to have the instant poison included in it. The problem here is that this happens before armor reduction is applied, so the poison is getting reduced by armor when it should not be.

I'm not profficient enough with spreadsheets to do all of this myself... but I would just eliminate the IP component of Shiv's avg damage and throw all of it's procs into the OH Temp Enchant calculation (add the shivs/sec and the regular attack proc/sec)

To add on to the Shiv component of the spreadsheet, 1s/5r/Xe seems perfectly possible with 2pc netherblade, and I'd be thankful if someone implemented those cycles into the spreadsheet. My friend also brought up a very interesting cycle where you do 5s/5r/5r and eviscerate if the rupture durations catch up with eachother. It's not a very simple thing to model, but worth a mention.

ron9 · 06/08/07, 9:00 PM

With the new Sword Spec changes in the upcomming PvP Patch what do you think would be the best choice to spend Arena Points on Main-hand/Off-hand Swords or Main-hand/Off-hand Fists for -purely- PVE DPS in ideal raid situations?

My Stats- 20-41-0
AP-1800
Hit-260rating
Crit- 21%(with Malice)

Using Thundering Skyfire gem, Poison VIal and Dragonspine Trophy.
Drums of Battle and Haste Potions used very often in fights and usually have Enhance Shaman in group.

Gogge · 06/08/07, 9:19 PM

Originally Posted by mih

6/8 01:35:29.390 Your Sword Specialization crits Servant of Allistarj for 966.
6/8 01:35:29.984 You gain 15 Energy from Combat Potency.
6/8 01:35:29.984 You gain 15 Energy from Combat Potency.
6/8 01:35:30.000 You hit Servant of Allistarj for 436.

Guessing it's not from PTR, I was referring to post 2.1.2 with white sword spec procs. I think purely autoattack with only the OH being sword should show if it works fairly quickly.

[top]IF(L51>0,E9*M51/E51,E4)+E13 Should be:

[top]IF(L51>0,E9*M51/E51,E4)+E13

Should be: