Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Public Discussion » Class Mechanics

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 07/07/07, 8:38 AM   #2581
Ellos
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Zirkel des Cenarius (EU)
Originally Posted by Siq View Post
I could be wrong, but envenom isn't really good for combat builds. So I don't think its necessary to build in envenom for anything else than mutilate.
sure, that is the reason why I haven't build it yet

Offline
Old 07/07/07, 8:55 AM   #2582
Tryss
Von Kaiser
 
Tryss's Avatar
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Suramar
Alright, I have a few questions about the calculated dps and dps cycles, in 2.3.2.

First of all, is there any way that we can switch the dps cycle represented as "optimal" in order to view theoretical dps using a different cycle? I ask this because when I change my talents and gear slightly to reflect fighting a poison immune boss such as VR (unchecking Rupture, removing Murder and poisons) it recommends a 5s/5e snd cut cycle which A) seems ridiculous and B) is much different from the 2s/5e snd cut cycle the last version of the spreadsheet recommended. Additionally, when I check off 3/3 Imp Evis it changes to a 1s/5e snd cut cycle and my projected dps drops (!) by 60. The older spreadsheet also recommended 1s/5e snd cut with 3/3 Imp Evis. I have 2 pc T4.

I would like to compare the 1s/5e snd cut cycle with and without Imp Evis but I cannot find a way to do this. I did see the Buffed Cycles sheet and the "Cycle DPS," but I can't quite figure out where this "Cycle DPS" fits into the total dps ... it doesn't match up with the "Melee DPS," "Sinister Strike DPS," "Finisher DPS," or "Other DPS" rows (or any combination). Things just aren't making much sense to me, I can see the cycle dps change with Imp Evis (3/3 Imp Evis increases all xs/5e snd cut cycles by ~15 dps), but I can't see where the spreadsheet figures a total loss of 60 dps.

Second, my actual dps is not matching up with this theoretical dps, as reported by Recap. On Void Reaver, a tank and spank if I ever saw one, the spreadsheet says I should be dpsing in the mid 900s, but I'm struggling to keep up 800. I'm using a 1s/5e snd cut cycle, chugging haste pots macroed to Blade Flurry and my trinket every two minutes and using Drums of War, all early and often. AR right when it's up. Unfortunately we don't have an Enh Shaman so no WF. I'm working on that.

On fights where I can actually Rupture and use poisons, the spreadsheet gives me a 1200ish value using 1s/5r snd cut. I can pull this off in Kara but not on Gruul or Mag; I get maybe 900 at the most there. Can the knockbacks and mechanics of these fights account for that much downtime leading to that much loss? Am I doing something blatantly wrong? Is Recap inaccurate? Or are the armor levels on bosses outside of Kara so much higher?

Thanks for your help. I'm always trying to improve myself as a player and a rogue, and this spreadsheet has been an integral tool since the days of ZG and MC. I've just never seen such inconsistencies between theory and practice before; in original WoW it was always right on the money. :/

edit: here is my armory: http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/#c...reaker&n=Tryss
I am aware my hit rating is a little low, I've been running Heroic BF as often as possible for the Icon, Kara every week for the Vial, and hoping for the WSC. Only time I saw any of those was when I passed the Vial when it was Darkmoon Card version 2.

Offline
Old 07/07/07, 10:20 AM   #2583
Ellos
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Zirkel des Cenarius (EU)
Originally Posted by Tryss View Post
Alright, I have a few questions about the calculated dps and dps cycles, in 2.3.2.

First of all, is there any way that we can switch the dps cycle represented as "optimal" in order to view theoretical dps using a different cycle? I ask this because when I change my talents and gear slightly to reflect fighting a poison immune boss such as VR (unchecking Rupture, removing Murder and poisons) it recommends a 5s/5e snd cut cycle which A) seems ridiculous and B) is much different from the 2s/5e snd cut cycle the last version of the spreadsheet recommended. Additionally, when I check off 3/3 Imp Evis it changes to a 1s/5e snd cut cycle and my projected dps drops (!) by 60. The older spreadsheet also recommended 1s/5e snd cut with 3/3 Imp Evis. I have 2 pc T4.

I would like to compare the 1s/5e snd cut cycle with and without Imp Evis but I cannot find a way to do this. I did see the Buffed Cycles sheet and the "Cycle DPS," but I can't quite figure out where this "Cycle DPS" fits into the total dps ... it doesn't match up with the "Melee DPS," "Sinister Strike DPS," "Finisher DPS," or "Other DPS" rows (or any combination). Things just aren't making much sense to me, I can see the cycle dps change with Imp Evis (3/3 Imp Evis increases all xs/5e snd cut cycles by ~15 dps), but I can't see where the spreadsheet figures a total loss of 60 dps.
In 2.3.2 is a bug with the cut SnD Evis cycle. It will be fixed in the next version. When the DPS goes over a fix value the data is wrong.
I think in the next time there will come a new Version 2.3.3 were this bug is fixed.

When you want to compare different cycle you have to look on the buffed cycle thread. The blue cells are the overall DPS for that cycle. This DPS Value you have to compare to look about the difference between the cycles. There is no other way (I think in the next Version I'll hide the cycle and the DPS Sheets. There are now to many sheets and I think most users don't look at this)

Originally Posted by Tryss View Post
Second, my actual dps is not matching up with this theoretical dps, as reported by Recap. On Void Reaver, a tank and spank if I ever saw one, the spreadsheet says I should be dpsing in the mid 900s, but I'm struggling to keep up 800. I'm using a 1s/5e snd cut cycle, chugging haste pots macroed to Blade Flurry and my trinket every two minutes and using Drums of War, all early and often. AR right when it's up. Unfortunately we don't have an Enh Shaman so no WF. I'm working on that.

On fights where I can actually Rupture and use poisons, the spreadsheet gives me a 1200ish value using 1s/5r snd cut. I can pull this off in Kara but not on Gruul or Mag; I get maybe 900 at the most there. Can the knockbacks and mechanics of these fights account for that much downtime leading to that much loss? Am I doing something blatantly wrong? Is Recap inaccurate? Or are the armor levels on bosses outside of Kara so much higher?
That is way this is a theoretically value. This is a absolute optimum that you nearly never reach. Also there are already bugs and not all is realy exactly build (cause it's not possible).

The armor vaulue is also a reason, this is different from boss to boss.

Offline
Old 07/07/07, 12:19 PM   #2584
SmokeMT
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Altar of Storms
I didn't have much time, but I went out and did a few tests on servants in blasted lands with dragonstrike to find out more about it's proc.

This is my first time trying this so I'm sorry if the data is poorly handled :P

http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/9334/testsze0.jpg

Also, if you'll notice in the bottom-left-hand test it rebuffed itself at least a few times.

Offline
Old 07/07/07, 12:37 PM   #2585
mih
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Rogue
 
Mannoroth (EU)
2.3.4
http://rogue.raidcal.com/

2.3.4 (mih)
changed
Difference DPS coloring
Madness of the Betrayer 2,3ppm

added
Cursed Vision of Sargeras
Gear/Talent import/export macro

2.3.3 (ellos)
changed
Procchance for Deathmantle 4p to 1.2 ppm
Hide unbuffed Cycles buffed Cycles
new Intro page

fixed
Buffed cycles (Evis / snd cut)


Q: How to use the import/export function?
A: You need version 2.3.4 or higher. Open your sheet with your items/talents. Then open the new version. Hit "Export"-Button in old version, than "Import"-Button in new version.

Offline
Old 07/07/07, 3:33 PM   #2586
Idris
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Kul Tiras (EU)
I know it doesn't actually relate to sustained dps but I am considering swapping my +12 Agi on boots for Cat's Swiftness (+6agi and minor run speed increase) because it seems to me that in fights with different phases, like most raid bosses in TBC are, a run speed increase might actually be more beneficial for overall damage than the 6 agility I would be losing.

Does anyone know how much the speed increase actually is so I can make more exact calculations? Or has this already been done? Tried search to no avail.

Offline
Old 07/07/07, 3:49 PM   #2587
Sokkou
Von Kaiser
 
Sokkou's Avatar
 
Human Rogue
 
Korgath
Well it's 8%, not sure how you can factor that into DPS.

Offline
Old 07/07/07, 3:52 PM   #2588
Tryss
Von Kaiser
 
Tryss's Avatar
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Suramar
Idris:

pretty sure it's 8%, the max.

Ellos:
Thanks. It's still recommending 5s/5e cut when I can't use Rupture. I'm just going to assume that's not optimal in practice and stick with 1 or 2s.

BTW, 2.2.4 is having a gem display bug in Open Office.

Offline
Old 07/07/07, 4:51 PM   #2589
micha
Glass Joe
 
Orc Rogue
 
Terrordar (EU)
Hi, the Export / Import Buttons are very very very very nice i hope its work when a new version is coming out

But the Gems are bugged again in Open Office


and anyone knew why this message came when i try to save my dps:


Last edited by micha : 07/07/07 at 6:03 PM.

Offline
Old 07/07/07, 6:20 PM   #2590
Ellos
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Zirkel des Cenarius (EU)
Originally Posted by Tryss View Post
Idris:
BTW, 2.2.4 is having a gem display bug in Open Office.
Don't know why there is again this bug, I've already fixed it..

I'll look at it tomorow and fix it again.

Maybe I've taken a old version were it was not fixed.

Hope there aren't many faults on the Intro page. My english grama is not the best

Offline
Old 07/07/07, 6:22 PM   #2591
Ellos
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Zirkel des Cenarius (EU)
Originally Posted by micha View Post
Hi, the Export / Import Buttons are very very very very nice i hope its work when a new version is coming out

But the Gems are bugged again in Open Office


and anyone knew why this message came when i try to save my dps:

maybe a .net Framework error. Having the newest Version of .net Framework? Try a update (you can get this on microsoft.com).

Offline
Old 07/07/07, 6:52 PM   #2592
micha
Glass Joe
 
Orc Rogue
 
Terrordar (EU)
yep i have the newest version :/ i have already reinstalled this but it doenst works :<

Offline
Old 07/07/07, 6:55 PM   #2593
Tryss
Von Kaiser
 
Tryss's Avatar
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Suramar
Originally Posted by Ellos View Post
Don't know why there is again this bug, I've already fixed it..

I'll look at it tomorow and fix it again.

Maybe I've taken a old version were it was not fixed.

Hope there aren't many faults on the Intro page. My english grama is not the best
fwiw 2.3.3 does not have the gem display bug, perhaps 2.3.4 is mistakenly based off an older version?

Offline
Old 07/07/07, 7:02 PM   #2594
Ellos
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Zirkel des Cenarius (EU)
Originally Posted by micha View Post
yep i have the newest version :/ i have already reinstalled this but it doenst works :<
Oh I just see you use Open Office.. sorry man, but Open Office can't handle the macros. Excel and Open Office don't use the same language for Macros. Sorry.

Maybe I should make write somewhere that Macros don't work in Open Office.

fwiw 2.3.3 does not have the gem display bug, perhaps 2.3.4 is mistakenly based off an older version?
Shouldn't be. 2.3.4 is based on 2.3.3. Well I've fixed it again, this time there was only the wrong cell. Don't know why.

http://rogue.raidcal.com/

2.3.5
Only Open Office Gem Bug.

Offline
Old 07/07/07, 7:25 PM   #2595
Idris
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Kul Tiras (EU)
Originally Posted by Sokkou View Post
Well it's 8%, not sure how you can factor that into DPS.
Thanks, that actually sounds pretty substantial. Don't think you can factor it into DPS in any generic way, it's a very encounter specific benefit.

Offline
 

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Public Discussion » Class Mechanics

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rogue Gear Spreadsheet Aldriana Class Mechanics 2892 08/03/08 5:10 AM
Newbie qestion reg. rogue dps spreadsheet thesmellyone The Dung Heap 2 06/21/07 8:18 AM
[Rogue] Haste rating and the spreadsheet Cloak-SH Class Mechanics 11 05/30/07 3:37 PM
Rogue Combat Daggers DPS Spreadsheet chalon Public Discussion 656 02/17/07 8:44 PM
Rogue Spreadsheet tynan Public Discussion 2 12/06/06 5:30 AM