Rogue DPS Spreadsheet - Page 182

sp00n · 07/13/07, 4:37 AM

Originally Posted by evl

I've got somewhat of a newcomers question: Will the spreadsheet take into account balance between hit/crit/ap meaning will the value of hit decline as I close in on 300?

Also the Gear Spreadsheet; another thread gives me completely different results, I reckon these two are separate but which one paints the more correct image? (e.g Crystalweave Cape with crap stats and +26 haste rating is rated as a lot better than say Vengeance Wrap with +8 hit in the socket)

Why should the value of hit decline as you close 300?
16 hit rating will always give you the same amount of damage (1% miss converted to hit), whether you are at 0 or 292 hit rating.

The absolute damage gain doesn't change, it's only the relative value which does (just like a jump from 9000 to 10000 is a smaller relative change than from 4000 to 5000, whereas both have an absolute increase of 1000).

evl · 07/13/07, 4:42 AM

Originally Posted by sp00n

Why should the value of hit decline as you close 300?
16 hit rating will always give you the same amount of damage (1% miss converted to hit), whether you are at 0 or 292 hit rating.

The absolute damage gain doesn't change, it's only the relative value which does (just like a jump from 9000 to 10000 is a smaller relative change than from 4000 to 5000, whereas both have an absolute increase of 1000).

Yesterday at Morogrim i tried running with 299 hit rating and had about 3 misses the entire fight and while I'm not very good at maths this leads me to believe I could get a better gain from replacing some of that hit with crit and/or ap.

While I guess that is ultimately the biggest rogue dilemma, the balance between hit/crit/ap/haste

Zurgat · 07/13/07, 5:13 AM

Originally Posted by evl

Yesterday at Morogrim i tried running with 299 hit rating and had about 3 misses the entire fight and while I'm not very good at maths this leads me to believe I could get a better gain from replacing some of that hit with crit and/or ap.

While I guess that is ultimately the biggest rogue dilemma, the balance between hit/crit/ap/haste

But, whether you'd have had 3 extra hits during that fights, or 3 extra crits.. the total damage you'd gain from those "few" extra hits would have been the same. Hence hit and crit are basically the same in theory.

Lets say you had 20 extra attack power. Each of your attacks would have had "a slight" increase in damage.
Lets say you had 1% more crit. Out of every 100 attacks, you'd have 1 extra crit. Double damage to 1 attack.
Lets say you had 1% more hit. Out of every 100 attacks, you'd have 1 extra hit (Full damage instead of a miss), that same hit "could" have triggered a poison proc on your offhand, or triggered an extra mongoose proc on either weapon, or if you're a sword user it could have triggered a swordspec.

In the end, i'd go for +hit until you're nearly capped. (To allow for any near future gear upgrades)

LiteSabre · 07/13/07, 6:04 AM

Sword spec does proc off of itself; and it also procs from windfury as well as proccing windfury itself as of 2.1.2. I'm fairly sure that it will continue to proc from windfury in 2.2. The question is, does 'additional extra attacks' mean just additional sword spec procs (5% chance for proc off a 5% proc) or windfury procs from sword spec (20% chance for proc off 5% proc, and a really incredible explosion of numbers for those who've seen it)?

evl · 07/13/07, 6:31 AM

Originally Posted by Zurgat

In the end, i'd go for +hit until you're nearly capped. (To allow for any near future gear upgrades)

I'm wondering how Weapon Skill fares against +hit, I've gotten myself Shoulderpads of the Stranger from Hydross which adds 10 Weapon Skill Rating (2.56 skill) but I'm a bit uncertain of how to evaluate this up against +hit

sp00n · 07/13/07, 6:47 AM

1 weapon skill (not rating) equals 0.1% hit against level 73 boss mobs.
Thus, 1 weapon skill rating (3.94:1) equals 0.397 hit rating (15.77:1), or 1 hit rating equals 2.518 weapon skill.

I'm currently not sure how exactly skill affects dodge nowadays, which would shift it a bit in favor of skill.

evl · 07/13/07, 6:48 AM

Originally Posted by sp00n

1 weapon skill (not rating) equals 0.1% hit against level 73 boss mobs.
Thus, 1 weapon skill rating (3.94:1) equals 0.397 hit rating (15.77:1), or 1 hit rating equals 2.518 weapon skill.

I'm currently not sure how exactly skill affects dodge nowadays, which would shift it a bit in favor of skill.

So Weapon Skill is something I want to avoid if I can get hit instead? I'm drooling at Fang of Vashj but it seems Merciless Gladiator's Shanker is better?

Apsalar · 07/13/07, 7:22 AM

Don't forget weapon skill also adds crit and lowers the chance you attacks will get parried, dodged (and blocked?).

Generally speaking it isn't worth it unless it has alot of +skill on it.

sp00n · 07/13/07, 7:38 AM

Originally Posted by evl

So Weapon Skill is something I want to avoid if I can get hit instead? I'm drooling at Fang of Vashj but it seems Merciless Gladiator's Shanker is better?

Well the topic of the thread you're posting in covers your question pretty much I suppose.

Tryss · 07/13/07, 7:39 AM

Well, the way I see it, when you get to the hit cap, the only way you won't land an attack is if it gets dodged.

Weapon skill can help mitigate that. That doesn't mean use Latro's in BT or anything ... but if you can get it, why not?

Urraca · 07/13/07, 9:28 AM

Originally Posted by Zurgat

I was under the impression that they removed all procs proccing from other procs ages ago.
But seems in 2.2 they are making some change to it : WoW Forums -> 2.2 PTR Patch Notes

E.g. :
Instant poison can't proc Swordspec,
Instant poison can't proc Hand of Justice,
Swordspec can't trigger another Swordspec,
Swordspec can't trigger Windfury,
Swordspec can't trigger Romulo's poison vial / Maelstrom,
Lifestealing can't trigger Swordspec,
Windfury can't trigger Swordspec.

(These all used to work iirc)

Then when they 'nerfed' it changing the proc from yellow damage to white damage, they changed it back. I easily 3-4x chain procs a minute.

thingol · 07/13/07, 9:39 AM

Originally Posted by Urraca

Then when they 'nerfed' it changing the proc from yellow damage to white damage, they changed it back. I easily 3-4x chain procs a minute.

It is being changed again next patch. Check out the PTR patch notes. As much as seeing rogue nerfs sucks this one does bring sword spec much more in line with the 5% crit from other weapon specs.

Sh@ft · 07/13/07, 9:41 AM

edit: nm delete me.

Shinja · 07/13/07, 9:56 AM

Insalled a Excel 2007 version and tried the 2.3.6 version:

"This workbook has lost its VBA project, ActiveX controls and any other programmability-related features."

No "upgrade", "import" or "export" button seems to work, the sheet is [Read-Only][Repared][Compatibility mode] now.

Ellos · 07/13/07, 10:01 AM

I'm working a long time with Excel 2007 on the Sheet now. One time I had such an error and it was goen after a restart.