Rogue DPS Spreadsheet - Page 2

Roland · 10/19/06, 2:01 PM

Very nice work, and even more accurate than the last iteration.

pf · 10/19/06, 2:10 PM

Originally Posted by Voljun

Thanks for the update on TF. I would love to test out the nature damage portion of it, however I am not sure of the best way to test it out. I do know that it works through BoP. I haven't seen it crit or be resisted, and don't know if it works on SS or Evis.

If you want, get a guildie and we can test it out :).

Using BoP is the only way I can see reliably testing it (unless the combat log makes note of the NR portion). I might have to take you up on the offer, but probably not anytime soon as non-raid play time is becoming harder to come by lately.

Originally Posted by Roland

Very nice work, and even more accurate than the last iteration.

ty, and releasing new versions is usually about being more accurate. Unfortunately, we are not perfect and have to keep fixing stuff that we did wrong to begin with :)

• frmorrison · 10/19/06, 2:16 PM

Thanks for the good work Pf.

I wouldn't worry about testing TF too much. Very few people have it and may replace it soon to give it much worry.

Kalman · 10/19/06, 2:22 PM

Originally Posted by Zyz

nice work, thanks for the update :)

Kalman, how does the cycle analyzer work with the 4pc BS bonus?
Does it just add an extra backstab in before the 5pt SnD?

Oh and Pf, think you can include the 200ap buff from DM in a later version?
Fengus' Ferocity: http://thottbot.com/?sp=22817

4pc BS bonus is modeled as a reduction in the cost of backstab. For a given cycle, any excess energy is converted directly into damage (technically, it's converted directly into extra instant attacks whose CP generation is ignored, but that's more a detail of how CPcycle was merged than anything else) at the proper DPE ratio, so the BS cost reduction (and thus CP cost reduction) models twice, which is appropriate; once, in providing more energy at the end of the cycle to be converted into damage, and once by increasing backstab DPE by way of reduced cost.

So, if 4 pc BS opens up a new (more efficient) cycle, it's modeled properly for increased CP generation, and if it doesn't, it's modeled as giving you the occasional backstab with the CP thrown away. In practice, people tend to use the "waste" backstab method, since there doesn't seem to be any cycle BS opens up that's more efficient.

castille · 10/19/06, 2:27 PM

Any idea how Combat Potency is going to be modelled yet? ;)

Kalman · 10/19/06, 2:31 PM

Originally Posted by castille

Any idea how Combat Potency is going to be modelled yet? ;)

There's a coefficient in there called EEC which is used to handle energy generating/consuming abilities. Unfortunately, it'll probably require a circular reference, as SnD uptime affects CP energy generation, but energy generation affects SnD uptime.

pf · 10/19/06, 2:33 PM

Originally Posted by frmorrison

Thanks for the good work Pf.

I wouldn't worry about testing TF too much. Very few people have it and may replace it soon to give it much worry.

It is always nice to get things done correctly. Especially when blizzard could easily make a lot of weapons that include +magic damage. And testing really shouldnt take a long time. Should be fairly obvious if it crits and if it can be resisted. 2 BoP's is probably all that is required.

• frmorrison · 10/19/06, 2:44 PM

Originally Posted by pf

Should be fairly obvious if it crits and if it can be resisted. 2 BoP's is probably all that is required.

Good point, magic damage on melee weapons is a neat dynamic and may be used again. Since the nature damage should count as a spell, it should do the 1.5 crit using your spell crit rate (which I assume for a Rogue would be around int/59.5), which is less than 1%. Rogues in the beta should be able to see the spell crit rate (assuming the client allows you to select it).

I have seen screenshots showing resists, but it could have been a case of the combat log being wrong.

• Andeh · 10/19/06, 2:47 PM

So I was playing around with the latest spreadsheet (2.0.1), comparing my current gear to if I picked up a nice new MH dagger, like Maexxna's Fang (and of course swapping in the essential ACLG). With ideal Horde raid buffs, I was surprised just how close swords came to daggers (within 11 DPS). Is this due to changes in your Windfury model, to the new cycle features, to the implemented Ruthlessness/SND talents, or a combination? I might really rethink switching to daggers if this is the case.

pf · 10/19/06, 2:50 PM

Originally Posted by frmorrison

Originally Posted by pf

Should be fairly obvious if it crits and if it can be resisted. 2 BoP's is probably all that is required.

Good point, magic damage on melee weapons is a neat dynamic and may be used again. Since the nature damage should count as a spell, it should do the 1.5 crit using your spell crit rate (which I assume for a Rogue would be around int/59.5), which is less than 1%. Rogues in the beta should be able to see the spell crit rate (assuming the client allows you to select it).

I have seen screenshots showing resists, but it could have been a case of the combat log being wrong.

Or does the nature damage work a lot like arcane shot and continue with the melee critrate/multiplier. Does it crit independantly of the sword (this would be near impossible to test)? A paladin in solid NR gear and a few BoPs should answer most questions about the proc.

Farla · 10/19/06, 3:11 PM

a few bug reports:

-mace spec is adding 0.05 (5%) to mace skill
-the checkbox to add hemo debuff dps doesn't seem to apply to buffed dps

Kalman · 10/19/06, 3:23 PM

Originally Posted by Farla

a few bug reports:

-mace spec is adding 0.05 (5%) to mace skill

Not a bug, mace spec adds +1 mace skill per point as well. This is balanced by the fact that Weapon Expertise doesn't.

Farla · 10/19/06, 3:31 PM

Originally Posted by Kalman

Originally Posted by Farla

a few bug reports:

-mace spec is adding 0.05 (5%) to mace skill

Not a bug, mace spec adds +1 mace skill per point as well. This is balanced by the fact that Weapon Expertise doesn't.

i'm saying that it shows 5.05 as my mace skill if i'm human. :P i know it gives +1 mace skill per point :)

pf · 10/19/06, 3:35 PM

Originally Posted by Farla

a few bug reports:

-mace spec is adding 0.05 (5%) to mace skill
-the checkbox to add hemo debuff dps doesn't seem to apply to buffed dps

Ty, I fixed that bug in my current sheet and will release another version today since this is a fairly large issue. I plan on adding the wrong DP5 formulas back into the offhand as well. Hopefully, by this afternoon, all the large bugs will be spotted as people dodge work to play with the new sheet and its more encompassing talent options.

Also, to address the Swords vs dagger horde side. When I put in AQR/Iblis vs Maexx/Hod, I find it comes up about 18 dps short of the daggers. Are you using 5/5 DD bonus for this? The only major change I made to windfury was to have each swing not be given 120% damage. However, the benefits of swords vs daggers would probably push me towards using swords if I were horde, but I do not see them pumping out more damage on a Patchwerk with current gear (assuming equal weaps/gear).

Ren · 10/19/06, 3:39 PM

If TF is anything like a Servo Arm, then the proc can be resisted and crit. Resist rate are like spell resist rates (~17% against a level 63?) and proc crit % is based on your Intellect and +spell crit modifiers (Ony/Nef turn-in buffs, Loatheb +60% spell crit buff). Proc crits do 150% damage like spells.