Why do you need to know how long a given instance of the buff will last? Can't you just model the percent of time the proc is active by 1 - (1-P)^X?

Also, since you brought up short-circuiting a Mutilate cycle with Ruthlessness, let me ask about the 4-piece Netherblade bonus (15% for a combo point after finishers). I doubt anyone has four pieces yet, but I wonder if it's possible to proc both that and Ruthlessness, so there would be a small chance to short-circuit to a five-point finisher after one Mutilate, in addition to the slightly higher chance to short-circuit to a four-point finisher. Think that would have much effect on overall DPS for Mut builds?

Since TNB is a stacking buff, one cannot use that formula since it would only give % of time the buff is up instead of average amount of armor reduced by the buff. I was trying a stochastic process (i think thats the right word to describe how I am attempting it) to model the proc and the expected amont of time the 3-procced buff stays up is not coming to me through memory. The only way I can think to do it would be do it discreetly, but since hits per second is variable, that method does not seem to be optimal.

Anyway, the 4p NB bonus is modelled into the sheet assuming both can proc independently for mutilate. Just enable the buff by forcing the buffbox to be true to see how much dps you can expect to gain from it, then just hit undo so that you don't ruin your sheet.

PF/Kalman, have you done any analysis on the effect of resilience in comparing weapon specs? I know that traditionally combat fists will outdps combat swords by a small margin given equal itemization, but it'd appear that the reduction of crit damage from resilience (for example, at 197 resilience, you have a reduced chance to crit by 5%, and reduced crit damage done by 10%) would hurt fists much harder. Have you looked into a possible breakpoint where, at a given level of resilience, combat swords passes fists?

If you'd like to take it a step further, given that I am not a human and my only useful offhand is a Latro's, could you recommend the best weapon purchase (Glad fist or sword) for maxing PVP DPS? Keep in mind that I am referring to situations where I am attacking enemies with a significant amount of resilience (80+ at the low end). Odd question, I know. =p

I don't think one can model anything at all for pvp.

Isn't the purpose of this spreadsheet for sustained DPS with a relatively high time on target? Which is almost everything that PvP isn't....

I'm not really asking about modelling PvP DPS cycles; there's a lot of discussion in this thread about combat swords vs combat fists theory, and I simply wanted to know if/how resilience would impact them differently. It's arguably nontopical (although in context I certainly don't think so), but it's definitely not impossible to examine, especially given that this spreadsheet is one of the best tools for direct comparison between the two specs.

known issues listed on the first post: Deadly poison formula is wrong

And about sword vs fist, most people who have used both prefer fists over swords for pve as eviscerate/envenom dont get near as much benefit from sword spec as crit%. Also, sword spec relies more on procs from white dps and pvp isnt as much about white dps.

Well, since noone wanted to help, I just used a poisson distribution to model the way procs occur. This is the best I could come up with. Also, I applied this modeling technique to deadly poison as its not hard to replicate after doing all of the math once.

Anyway, I am releasing a beta copy of this version of the sheet for people to play around with this weekend. If anyone with probability/statistics knowledge has the time, try to look over the math behind TNB proc and DP7 in the sheet (it should be basically the same as stated above). And for others that don't have have that type of mathematical background, try to click stuff around and see if any input values concerning the new data break the sheet. (ie div/0 errors in the DPS).

other new cool stuff:
AEP site link with values already entered for you.
Pawn import string (similar to above).
New +skill option to follow the blue post linked earlier.
Sockets on Cloaks.


http://rogue.bleedo.net/RogueDPS_2.2.3beta.xls

also, I am not going to change any reitemized gear stats in this final release as I dont care to do that, so dont post about it please.

God, I love me some pf.

Oh, one last thing I forgot to mention. The procrate I used for TNB is 22%, which would make the average armor reduction for a mainhanded TNB about 900 (or 2 procs). Does this seem realistic for those that have the weapon? Also, the average uptime for the proc after it reaches 3 procs is ~25 seconds, this would be a very overpowered proc if all of these calculations are correct.

Buddy, you may not have intended this to be condescending, but do I come across as a fscking idiot? We didn't have enough tanks or CC to do that. If we had another Shackle or Freezing Trap, we would have used it.

And seriously, who tanks the Paladin/Warrior adds with a Rogue in the group? Ranged DPS + Crippling Poison (+ Feint/Vanish if necessary), KS the MS Warrior if he starts Whirlwinding.

No, we just made a small cooperation.

I think I wouldn't even halway understand what Pf is modelling in his sheet.

Whoa, just found out about this Rogue DPS spreadsheet, and it's now my new favorite toy.

Quick Question though. I'm a Hemo rogue, and I'm finding that clicking the "Use Ghostly Strike if Hemo" box is lowering my Total DPS by about 20 (30 buffed). Is this expected? I thought that Ghostly Strike was a more efficient damage move than Hemo, no matter what. Is this because of the slower CP generation?

GS and hemo have very similar overall DPS once you include the fact that a GS dodge consumes 40 energy and you might have less snd uptime and fewer poison procs. Anyway, the reason you are losing so much dps is the debuff estimate. You lose ~400 damage per hemo you do not use, which results in the dps loss that you are seeing.

Well, after adding a few more things in this one, I am officially retired from this sheet. These last changes started with adding the new +skill option and ended up being even more with TNB/AEP site link (again, thank you sp00n for both the idea and site). I hope someone will take over the sheet now that I am finished, if not to update math, at least to keep the gear on the sheet up to date.

http://rogue.bleedo.net/

Version 2.2.3 - 3/20/07
Added a new option for the calculation of +skill based on http://blue.cardplace.com/newcache/en/166546791.htm , If this post is true, +skill is about twice as good as agility for DPS on boss-mobs.
Added an option for sockets on cloaks.
Added AEP values on the talents page with a link to sp00n aka Surprise's (Wrathbringer (EU)) gear comparison website.
Added a Pawn import string on the Talents page as well.
Added 3s/5s/5r to the list of cycles for Combat Daggers.
Fixed amount of +skill given from racials and talents.
Changed stats on Vengeance wrap.
Changed Deadly Poison VII to follow a Poisson distribution. This is not 100% accurate, but is 100 times better than what was used previously. It now correctly accounts for using it on both weapons as well.
Changed The Night Blade to follow a Poisson distribution as well. However, to prevent circular references, amount of special attacks used is estimated based upon the spec you choose.

Just noticed that mace spec only gives 1 point of skill per talent point, rather than two as is the case. To fix, just change cell I19 from reading =H19 to =H19*2 . Makes a fair amount of difference if the Blue post is right.

Thanks for all the Hard work you've put into the sheet over the months Pf, i really appreciate it .

Little off-topic, but I figure this is the best place to get Rogue answers. I've run Mana-Tombs Heroic 13 times now for Wastewalker Leggings (WoWHead and Allakhazam both list them as dropping there, but have comments suggesting otherwise), and I've heard from a less-than-trustworthy source that the actual drop location is Aeonus in Black Morass Heroic. Loot is random, I know, but I'd like to at least know that I'm running the right instance. Can anyone who has seen these drop set me straight?

Prince Shaffer Heroic. All the non-class specific dungeon sets drop off final Bosses of lower level Heroic instances, except the gloves, which drop off a lvl 70 end boss in normal mode.

Check in-game or on blizzards web talent calcs :
http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/ba...e/talents.html

Obviously it was changed at some point in the past.

Hello everyone,

I have a small problem and I would like your thoughts on it : yesterday, I managed to gather enough arena points to buy a Gladiator's Quickblade (+Mongoose) in order to replace my Latro's Shifting Sword (+15 Agi). But when i update my spreadsheet, I see a slight loss of dps (buffed and unbuffed) and I don't understand really why, because I upgrade my OH and put a better enchant on it.
So my question is : is the combination Latro's + Combat Potency so powerfull ?

PS : I'm a combat sword rogue as you already guess.

PS(bis) : A big thanks for the creator of this spreadsheet and all the people who works/worked on it. Keep up the good work

Yes, in short.

The speed difference and weapon skill on latro's overshadows the extra weapon damage on the gladiator weapon... This is especially true if you have a sword in the main hand. You may be able to use your item restore to get the mongoose materials back.

Plus there is a bit of an ilvl budget waste on resilience.

So true.