So would it be safe to say that the hit cap would be 277.53 (309.07 - 31.54) for rogues with Weapon Expertise and 309.07 for rogues without? Also, while using the spreadsheet I can't seem to find the Dragonspine Trophy in the list of trinkets, is there just more testing to be done with this item? How much DPS would some of you estimate the Dragonspine Trophy adds?

No, you need 15.77 hit rating for 1% hit.
Against a level 73 boss mob you (likely) have 24.6% miss chance, for which you need ~388 hit rating without talents or ~309 rating with talents.

Believe he is talking about how +wep skill is supposed to give a certain amount of hit vs higher lvl mobs. So lowering the hit cap by some amount

Hello i used this dps calculator since classic wow. It's very nice but in the latest version 2.2.3a i miss the Malchazeen as an offhand dagger.
Do you just forgot it?

greets
Mika

if you tell me why you would offhand that dagger, i might tell you how to get the dagger show as offhand in the spreadsheet

Ignoring why you would be offhanding Malchazeen, you could unhide the Weapons sheet and copy+paste the Malchazeen row from the Main Hand section to the Off Hand section for a temporary fix.

The Nightblade main and Malchazeen off..
Nightblade proccs more often in mainhand than in offhand

Right, earlier in this thread (I believe) it was mentioned that +5 weapon skill would be equivalent to 1% hit when attacking higher level mobs. Removing 1 point in Weapon Expertise in pf's spreadsheet confirms this. If this is accurate (which I can't find anything else to really back this up) then the hit cap against higher level mobs with 2/2 Weapon Expertise would be 277.53.

It would be nice to be able to replace a few hit gems with ap/crit if this is true!

Well, my dps goes down when I surpass +277 hit (from gear) in the spreadsheet, so from what I can tell the spreadsheet thinks +277 is the mark to hit.

I've recently gotten into discussions about the Guile of Khoraazi vs Searing Sunblade offhand and which is better considering a 13/41/7 combat dagger spec. Using the spreadsheet the Sunblade comes out on top by 14dps. Everyone else I've talked to says the Guile is going to be better with more agi and 50 more AP. I don't buy it because the 1.3 spd has to mean a lot considering combat potency and poison application. Does anyone have any specific math on which is clearly better? I know the math is built into the spreadsheet, but I also heard of there being a cool down on combat potency. I don't see this noted in the spell description. Does anyone else have any info about this?

I would really appreciate any input on the differences between these two daggers.

Been a ... fun ... weekend, I haven't forgotten you guys and thanks for all the submitted bugs to the new tracker, will get them in tonight or tomorrow hopefully!

I don't have an arena team, so thats not really an option for me...
I have 50 heroic badges, i'm deciding sunblade over FR.

Seems with TBC the spreadsheet might need to be more maleable at the moment. Back in 1.x updates were solely as new raid content came out, fairly well spaced out. Right now, we're discovering new items weekly and fortnightly getting tweaks to existing ones.

Every time that happens someone asks 'what about x item? Why isn't it in?'

Simplest answer is just to change the freaking stats on your local version. But the problem with that is to change them they're buried in the lists sheets that many people might not have the knowledge of Excel to wheedle out. If you change them on the 'gear' sheet you nis the whole thing as you've busted the lookups.

If I get time this week, I'll write up a 'generic item sheet' that can link into the gear look ups. Should be a simple enough thing to do and as a stop gap measure it might stop some of the frustration of your current item of choice not being in the DB until we're back in the stablised situation of gear updates only every few months.

At this point, it's kind of silly not to get 1-2 of your friends who aren''t big PvP fans and just make an arena team, play 10 games a week and let the arena points build up. It's a very small amount of effort compared to how long I had to spend in Karazhan to pick up a Malchazeen, and that's not even guaranteed.

it's like a savings account with tremendous return, spend 20 minutes of your Warcraft time per week, 1-2 months later you can profit.

I'm really trying to figure out the best weapon setup for me right now. I'll have a Gladiator Shanker come tomorrow (should've started that first week), and I have a Malchazeen, Night Blade and a Searing Sunblade. I've been using Mutilate since our review came through, but respec'd recently as our guild is pushing Hydross now (gg poison immune).

It was pretty apparent how amazing The Night Blade was using it in my offhand with mutilate, but offhanded combat daggers it's pretty lacking. Did a lot of parsing last night (not on level 70 mobs, not with sunder) and the Sunblade was clearly outperforming it. Are people happy with how The Night Blade is currently modeled? Raiding this week I'm going to try and control my buffs a bit and swap TNB and Sunblade out a bit and see how they fair against each other in raid situations. But given this current discussion, should I have parsed some with TNB main and Sunblade off? I guess it just didn't occur to me.

If you have a Malch already, then spend your points on Gladiator Shiv offhand. It is the best overall OH and pairs extremely well with the Gladiator Main Hand fist (my next arena purchase) and also of course pairs great with a Malch for combat daggers.

Gladiator shanker isn't that much better than a Malch to waste the points on imo. But if you are set on getting a mainhand, check out the Glad fist.

rj, yes imho tnb is the best dagger in the game at the moment for pve.
However while the spreadsheet currently confirms this, it's might not be 100% accurate with the calculations.

As for Hydross...according to the spreadsheet I lose around 100-150dps (raidbuffed, depending on various gear differences) when using mutilate without poison vs combat daggers. While that is a conciderable amount, I would say that he is doable with mutilate rogues in the raid. (and for that matter, we've done so.)


Still Poison Immune mobs is not nice from blizzard.

They won't know it's overpowered. I don't think they pay enough attention to what were doing to learn this.

Absolutely, and I'm really kicking myself for not running Arenas from the very start (only started accruing points this past week). If you're a PVEr that doesn't care too much about Gladiator armor and you're just looking for weapon upgrades this is a fantastic, guaranteed way to pick them up for a very minimal amount of playtime. I just wish I'd recognized the effort vs. reward from Arenas sooner and dragged a friend or two in there with me right off the bat.

Yeah I am in the same boat now, trying to find some people who are willing to just run the 10 games a week that are needed to get some points. I will get the weapons eventually that way.

Well, I think we're going to be trying some different strats for Hydross... so I respec'd back to Mutilate right away ;p I like PvP a lot, even though my focus has always been PvE, so I've been dabbling in the arena teams and setups. I had my 3v3 team up to like 1850 rating, spec'd combat and had to get a couple players who were away from the game a couple days and were below the 30% mark... and man, we've lost like every game. I was so frustrated trying to arena in a combat daggers spec, few losses later I just decided to respec mut until Hydross got to the point where the last tune we needed was dps. Really crappy thing is... I missed out being able to pick up Gladiator Shanker due our rating going down ;/

I really really want the Shiv, but I'm the kind of consumer when faced with 2 decisions to buy, always goes with the most expensive item first, then resaves to the smaller amount.. I had this same discussion with others about whether or not to buy the Searing Sunblade or the trinket first ;p

I should've parsed some TNB/Sunblade setup while I was still combat, but oh well. It is clearly the way to go with mutilate for me right now (Shanker/TNB).

And yeah, I've had TNB for a month (paid 1600g) and have been worried since day 1 of it being nerfed, the procrate is just so high. It's nice, considering Blizzard in the past has been down on dagger itemization, particularly BOE options, so having a nice BOE epic compete with the likes of other items classes have had access to is great. I honestly don't think they'll nerf it, as we break into the meat of raid content there will be some upgrades with stats and haste proc'ing and TNB will become just the uber casual rogue twink dagger.

Apologies if a conclusion has already been reached, I browsed through the thread and didn't see anything conclusive. Anyone close to verifying if the blue post on +weapon skill is accurate?

from my point of view its utterly inconsistent. though i wouldnt know how to proove it right or wrong atm. cant imagine a fight that wouldnt be touched by wrong data.