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04/03/07, 7:53 PM
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#976
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Piston Honda
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This thread is pretty interesting. If anyone would like data on specific level mobs with specific Hit, I currently have precision, Wep. Ex., DWing daggers with 323 HR. I'm planning on re-gemming to drop down a bit, but if there's some tests I can do that would help, I can do that before I mess with my gems.
Edit: I'm really interested in the weapon skill part of this discussion, as I was still showing misses with 24.15% Hit, but only 353 Weapon skill on my OH (360 MH, mace spec). I'm starting to think that all of those misses might have been coming from the offhand...
Last edited by PessimiStick : 04/03/07 at 8:03 PM.
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04/03/07, 8:05 PM
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#977
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Don Flamenco
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Originally Posted by PessimiStick
This thread is pretty interesting. If anyone would like data on specific level mobs with specific Hit, I currently have precision, Wep. Ex., DWing daggers with 323 HR. I'm planning on re-gemming to drop down a bit, but if there's some tests I can do that would help, I can do that before I mess with my gems.
Edit: I'm really interested in the weapon skill part of this discussion, as I was still showing misses with 24.15% Hit, but only 353 Weapon skill on my OH (360 MH, mace spec). I'm starting to think that all of those misses might have been coming from the offhand...
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Originally Posted by Aldriana
Next steps:
Under this theory the hit cap with WEx and precision would be 308, or 303 with Latro's. Hence, if one ever missed with hit rating above this level, that would disprove the theory. Running 10k attacks or so at this level without a miss would be nice evidence to support the theory.
Testing at 307 (or 302 w/Latro's) to confirm that a miss could occur might also be worthwhile. Note, however, that the miss chance is on the order of 1 in 3000 for this... even if you don't miss in the first 5k attacks, that doesn't prove much. This test should be run for at least 10k attacks, or until a miss occurrs.
Ideally, these tests should be run at at least 2 different levels of weapon skill, to provide confirmation to the assumption that +1 weapon skill gives .1% hit. If you'd like to know the proposed hit cap for an amount of +skill other than 10 or 13, let me know and I will compute it for you.
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Note: Aldriana is referring to testing vs 73 mobs here.
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04/03/07, 8:10 PM
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#978
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by pf
Note: Aldriana is referring to testing vs 73 mobs here.
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I know for 100% fact that I showed misses against at least 73's with 302 HR and Latro's (and no Wep. Ex)
More than one miss as well, something on the order of 1% total misses for a Kara clear.
Edit: Seeing if I have any recap SS's of that run.
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04/03/07, 8:32 PM
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#980
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Mike Tyson
Night Elf Rogue
Doomhammer
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Originally Posted by koaschten
*wall of text hits Daemona critically for 1337 hitrating*
Ok, I am baffled... but i still want to help you
I have access to gear that goes up to 341 hitrating (including weapons15+18 rating). If i remove the weapons, its 308 hitrating, to which i could add up to 2 latros or 1 latros and a weapon without hit-rating. Specced precision and WEx and would like to avoid respeccing as i am in a major raiding guild and would have to do the tests in off-times only which would require me to respecc for testing without precision or WEx
give me something like "208 hit, 1 latros, mob lvl70, hit amount" and i see how fast i can deliver a result 
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Originally Posted by PessimiStick
This thread is pretty interesting. If anyone would like data on specific level mobs with specific Hit, I currently have precision, Wep. Ex., DWing daggers with 323 HR. I'm planning on re-gemming to drop down a bit, but if there's some tests I can do that would help, I can do that before I mess with my gems.
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Seems as though I may have overcomplicated things. Let me see if I can unmuddle the situation  .
What would be helpful is an exact determination of where the hit cap is for a variety of weapon skill values, against level 73 mobs.
Since we are trying to find the first amount of hit rating where it is no longer possible to miss, as soon as you miss once with one of these setups, you can stop the data set - however, this will probably take a couple thousand swings. If, however, you continue to always hit, please continue as long as you can - ideally, we'd like 10k swings without a miss to show that we're above the hit cap.
So, to confirm or disprove the current theory, we should test at as many as possible of the following values of hit rating (assuming precision in all cases):
WEx Only (360 weapon skill): 307, 308
WEx + Latro's (363 weapon skill): 302, 303
WEx + 2xLatro's (should be 367 weapon skill): 296, 297
WEx + 2xLatro's + Grips of the Deftness/ACLG (or equivalent; 369 weapon skill): 293, 294
No WEx (350 weapon skill): 323, 324
In each case, the expectation is that the lower of the two numbers will miss once every couple of thousand attacks, and the higher of the two will always hit.
Ald
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04/03/07, 8:35 PM
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#981
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Mike Tyson
Night Elf Rogue
Doomhammer
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Originally Posted by PessimiStick
I know for 100% fact that I showed misses against at least 73's with 302 HR and Latro's (and no Wep. Ex)
More than one miss as well, something on the order of 1% total misses for a Kara clear.
Edit: Seeing if I have any recap SS's of that run.
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1% total misses is about what's expected w/o WEx. With Latro's but no WEx, the theory is that you would need 319 hit rating to never miss vs a level 73.
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04/03/07, 8:36 PM
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#982
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by Aldriana
WEx Only (360 weapon skill): 307, 308
WEx + Latro's (363 weapon skill): 302, 303
WEx + 2xLatro's (should be 367 weapon skill): 296, 297
WEx + 2xLatro's + Grips of the Deftness/ACLG (or equivalent; 369 weapon skill): 293, 294
No WEx (350 weapon skill): 323, 324
In each case, the expectation is that the lower of the two numbers will miss once every couple of thousand attacks, and the higher of the two will always hit.
Ald
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I have Spymistress' Wristguards with an AP gem in them, I will leave them in my bag for Gruul tonight, giving me Precision + 360 Wep skill from both hands + 308 HR.
Edit: I can test No Wep. Ex and 323 HR as well if someone sends me 100g on Lothar haha.
Edit2: This weekend I can try to run some larger samples against the ogres in Blade's edge, I can just /follow with a paladin.
Last edited by PessimiStick : 04/03/07 at 8:45 PM.
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04/03/07, 10:03 PM
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#983
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Piston Honda
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Trash/Maulgar/Trash/Gruul, 0 misses with 308 HR and 360 Skill.
1138 Attacks
729 Hit
328 Crit
12 Parry
62 Dodge
0 Miss
Not a huge sample, maybe I should have suggested wiping to Gruul a few times. =D
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04/03/07, 11:43 PM
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#984
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Mike Tyson
Night Elf Rogue
Doomhammer
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Originally Posted by PessimiStick
Trash/Maulgar/Trash/Gruul, 0 misses with 308 HR and 360 Skill.
1138 Attacks
729 Hit
328 Crit
12 Parry
62 Dodge
0 Miss
Not a huge sample, maybe I should have suggested wiping to Gruul a few times. =D
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Interesting, to be sure. Problem is: trash isn't level 73, which is gonna throw things off. When taking data, please try to parse only boss fights and other 73s.
Ald
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04/04/07, 12:25 AM
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#985
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by Aldriana
Interesting, to be sure. Problem is: trash isn't level 73, which is gonna throw things off. When taking data, please try to parse only boss fights and other 73s.
Ald
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I have the txt log still, I can strip it later.
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04/04/07, 12:29 AM
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#986
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Don Flamenco
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If you arent good at parsing stuff, posting it will allow others who are better at it easy access to it. Also, welcome to the EJ forums Ippon, most people do not last as long as you did competently posting on the WoW forums.
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04/04/07, 12:38 AM
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#987
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by pf
If you arent good at parsing stuff, posting it will allow others who are better at it easy access to it. Also, welcome to the EJ forums Ippon, most people do not last as long as you did competently posting on the WoW forums.
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Got a good parser for windows? Never had the need to do it on my own PC before. >_<
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04/04/07, 2:25 AM
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#988
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Super Macho Man
<>
Orc Shaman
No WoW Account
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Originally Posted by PessimiStick
Got a good parser for windows? Never had the need to do it on my own PC before. >_<
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WWS is Java based, if I remember properly, and can parse locally. And let me add my welcome; pretty much the entire rogue forum theorycrafting crew is here by now.
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Melador> Incidentally, these last few pages are why people hate lawyers.
Viator> I really don't want to go all Kalman here.
Bury> Just imagine what the world would be like if you used your powers for good.
Clearly law school has done wonders for me.
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04/04/07, 2:29 AM
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#989
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by Kalman
WWS is Java based, if I remember properly, and can parse locally. And let me add my welcome; pretty much the entire rogue forum theorycrafting crew is here by now.
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I seem to be the only one that still enjoys yelling at people during work though. =(
You're all party poopers.
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04/04/07, 2:41 AM
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#990
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Super Macho Man
<>
Orc Shaman
No WoW Account
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Originally Posted by PessimiStick
I seem to be the only one that still enjoys yelling at people during work though. =(
You're all party poopers.
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I quit my old job and my new job has less time for yelling at people.
Or maybe I just have less tolerance for their stupidity, I don't know.
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Melador> Incidentally, these last few pages are why people hate lawyers.
Viator> I really don't want to go all Kalman here.
Bury> Just imagine what the world would be like if you used your powers for good.
Clearly law school has done wonders for me.
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04/04/07, 8:15 AM
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#991
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Piston Honda
Murloc Rogue
Aggramar (EU)
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I ran right out of patience about two months ago on the EU boards. When they did the change over of forums they didn't keep my stickies, I still hung around correcting all the misinformation in the new stickies for a while but eventually it got to me.
I still post occasionally in my lunch hour when I'm feeling like playing whack a mole with the forum idiots, but I'm not as patient with them as I used to be (and I wasn't that much to start with). In fact I think my last post had 'I sometimes wonder at the sheer incompetency that manages to find it's way onto these baords' or similar as a last line.
How you can get to 70 and not understand how AP effects damage done from instant attacks just completely baffled me.
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04/04/07, 9:22 AM
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#992
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Piston Honda
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WWS Doesn't seem to break down "misses" into parry/dodge/miss, unless I missed an option somewhere. =\
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04/04/07, 9:55 AM
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#993
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Piston Honda
Blood Elf Paladin
Blackhand
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Originally Posted by PessimiStick
WWS Doesn't seem to break down "misses" into parry/dodge/miss, unless I missed an option somewhere. =\
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I was in the same situation. I wanted to parse my combat log on a windows box. Instead of just posting my log here, I got impatient and downloaded GREP ported to windows. It worked just fine and has all the same functionality as the *nix GREP command.
You can get it here: http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages/grep.htm if you like.
Oh yea, welcome to the real forums. About damn time. I was thinking about rolling an alt on Lothar the other day just to tell you to get over here.
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04/04/07, 12:45 PM
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#995
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Rogue
Illidan (EU)
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Originally Posted by Zoro
How you can get to 70 and not understand how AP effects damage done from instant attacks just completely baffled me.
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People like that are just "playing" wow, they don't try to understand "how". And it is very unpleasant when you try your best in raid and see that your fellow guildies can't keep up because they don't put some efforts to understand their classes and play better.
It gets on my nerves everytime
PS : Sorry for the rant, hard day at work 
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04/04/07, 2:50 PM
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#996
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Piston Honda
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seriously stop trying to talk ippon away from the WoW boards, because he is the only reason I still read those boards. For some reason the quality, which was never really good, drop drastically when TBC came out. Maybe everyone migrating here had a bigger effect than i had really realized /shrug.
WWS is supposed to be fixing the parry/block/miss problem. I noticed this over the weekend and posted on their forums. Lossendi said it would be fixed soon on the server version.
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04/04/07, 3:02 PM
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#997
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banned
Night Elf Rogue
Wrathbringer (EU)
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Huh, I posted about half a year ago about this issue on his board, wouldn't be too sure about a quick fix. 
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04/04/07, 4:01 PM
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#998
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In the rear with the gear!
Worgen Rogue
Auchindoun (EU)
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this beauty just dropped from Void Reaver for my guild. a fellow rogue got it. will upload a log from Magtheridons Lair later to check for the proc rate.

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04/04/07, 4:26 PM
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#999
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owns a cowbell irl
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Originally Posted by Kalman
I quit my old job and my new job has less time for yelling at people.
Or maybe I just have less tolerance for their stupidity, I don't know.
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I stopped looking at any of the official forums that weren't my realm a few months back. It got to be too much.
To continue the OT posting, I just got a new job and moved. My last job had me traveling and working from hotels. I feel like I'm months behind, and really miss being able to idle in IRC while at work
Ippon is still using his Tribes handle. And I'm a huge nerd for knowing that.
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04/04/07, 4:29 PM
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#1000
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by Lrigatonmai
Ippon is still using his Tribes handle. And I'm a huge nerd for knowing that.
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I would have used it for WoW too, but it wouldn't let me capitalize the S. =(
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