Rogue DPS Spreadsheet - Page 40

pf · 02/16/07, 11:47 AM

Barring any major flaws in this release, it should be my last. My time updating these sheets has been enjoyable, but I feel it is finally at a point where I can leave them alone and they will hold value until major changes in the rogue class. As I stated before, if anyone wants to take this project over, I will assist them. If someone wants to just update the sheet as new gear comes out, that is fine as well. If you are serious about that, contact Bleedo and I'm sure he will provide you with the same web-hosting he provided me.

http://rogue.bleedo.net

Version 2.2.2 2/16/2007
Fixed The Night Blade to subtract 100 armor off buffed dps as well as unbuffed. This value is based upon a guess.
Fixed Checkboxes on talents page.
Fixed stats on the Claw of the Watcher, Needle Strike, Guile of Khoraazi
Fixed Ring Enchant: Striking to work.
Fixed major problems caused by using Netherblade 2-piece. Also fixed some slight problems with Netherblade 4-piece.
Fixed a bug where next-stat +hit showed a dps gain with combat potency and 100% hit.
Fixed energy efficiency up, it should now display % of energy spent on instants/blade flurry. (Ghostly strike is not counted as an instant in this case).
Fixed an issue with limits on the next-stat sheet.
Fixed the HP value to follow lvl 70 instead of 60.
Changed how Hourglass of the Unraveler is modeled based on data from Bleedo, Bonechewer and suggestions from others that there was an invisible cooldown. This makes the trinket more in line with its item-level, but is still a little overpowered.
Changed lifestealing to deal 19 damage at 70. This is based on a guess and at this point, noone should be using crusader or lifesteal anyway.
Changed haste rating effect to be increased by 50% to follow 2.0.7 patch notes. (now it is unquestionably the best stat for a raiding rogue, surpassing agi/skill) Blizzard should really apply this to +skill rating as well.
Changed the base dodge chance of a 70 rogue to -.59%. This is from data on wowwiki and could be wrong.
Added a version of Braided Eternium Chain without the buff as I learned the buff has limited charges and even with infinite charges, you will not have the buff 100% of the time.
Added new items.
To make future changes to the cycle sheet easier (ie no more 2piece netherblade problems), I removed a bit of redundant data.

sp00n · 02/16/07, 2:44 PM

Changed the base dodge chance of a 70 rogue to -.59%. This is from data on wowwiki and could be wrong.

Just checked with my rogue, seems to be correct (0.41% dodge after substracting agility and dodge rating, and then -1% for the night elf racial = -0.59%).

Eldia · 02/16/07, 8:01 PM

Hi pf,
First of all, thanks for working on the spreadsheet!

Question: Is the weapon skill rating correct? I think the racial bonus (+5 sword/mace) is not consistent with weapon expertise and weapon +skill rating. For example, if I have 2/2 weapon expertise selected, under the talent cell for +sword/fist/dagger, it says 29, but for human it's still 5 (for sword and mace). I think the racial one should be changed to the weapon rating equivalent?

Also where does the 2.9 multipler (on the talent cell) comes from? According to wiki (http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Combat_Ratings_System), the multipler at level 70 is 3.9... so 3.9 skill rating would give +1 weapon skill.

Thanks pf.

Mimesis · 02/16/07, 9:23 PM

I noticed the sheet is still using the old values for Vengeance Wrap in stead of the new one. Also i can't seem to find a way to socket cloaks even after changed the cloaks stats.

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=24259

Qmass · 02/17/07, 7:43 AM

I have a query regarding, I spose, an 'overlook' in set bonus synergy with immunity to a finisher and combo point loss.

The assassination set bonus:

(2) Set: Your Cheap Shot and Kidney Shot attacks grant you 160 haste rating for 6 sec

can be triggered on mobs immune to both attacks and becuase they are immune, do not use up any combo points. I havnt though too much about how to perfectly slot it into a cycle, Im really not very imaginitive or knowledgable on theorycrafting ideas out so.. I was wondering how/if it would be worthwhile to use this in your dmg cycle against mobs immune to the effect so you get combo point free SnD'esque effect, which of course stacks with SnD.

My best thought was that @ 5 combo points to make sure you get a relentless proc, you could kidney shot right before using the combo points up.

Any thoughts?

Kalman · 02/17/07, 9:11 PM

I think it's unquestionably worthwhile at 5 CP; the major problem is figuring out how to properly incorporate it into the CP/cycle modeling portion of the sheet.

kaytwo · 02/18/07, 1:03 AM

getting the "immune" message on a boss when using KS to proc that haste effect doesn't activate quick recovery or relentless strikes; it's a straight up haste bonus for 25 energy, where it goes in your cycle doesn't really matter (no chance to recover energy, no chance to lose combo points). I've never used it more than as a way to switch things up a little bit, my back of the envelope made it only come out to an extra 2 or 3 swings, so the DPE ain't hot but it's fun to hear the AR sound after being mutilate for so long.

NB: haven't played 2.0.7, this might be changed.

elentari · 02/18/07, 10:49 AM

Is it too much if I raise this again: I would really appreciate if we could capitalise our sentences...

Zoro · 02/19/07, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by Kalman

I think it's unquestionably worthwhile at 5 CP; the major problem is figuring out how to properly incorporate it into the CP/cycle modeling portion of the sheet.

Write new cycle. Only enable it as an option if set piece condition is met.
It seems the only way, as that's in effect what you're doing.
In my case shifting from a 5S/5R to a 5S/1C/5R or similar.

I can think of a hash job solution for instances where you have both relentless and the set bonus - but that relies on assuming you model the new cycle as the old cycle less the relentless talent and average out the set bonus effect as a haste multiplier. But obviously that wont work for non-relentless talent pics.

Coriolis · 02/19/07, 12:36 PM

It seems that the search function isn't working and I'd really like to know if anyone has figured out how the +weapon damage from items works. Specifically, does it add the full +damage to the offhand, or just half of it (before talents). Thanks!

pf · 02/19/07, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by Zoro

Write new cycle. Only enable it as an option if set piece condition is met.
It seems the only way, as that's in effect what you're doing.
In my case shifting from a 5S/5R to a 5S/1C/5R or similar.

I can think of a hash job solution for instances where you have both relentless and the set bonus - but that relies on assuming you model the new cycle as the old cycle less the relentless talent and average out the set bonus effect as a haste multiplier. But obviously that wont work for non-relentless talent pics.

If a failed Kidney Shot always requires 25 energy (ie no relentless/quick recovery), then using the set bonus is most likely a waste of energy. If this is the case, there is no reason to model it, especially considering gaining the proc after an immune message is most likely an unintended bug that will probably be fixed.

Originally Posted by Coriolis

It seems that the search function isn't working and I'd really like to know if anyone has figured out how the +weapon damage from items works. Specifically, does it add the full +damage to the offhand, or just half of it (before talents). Thanks!

+dmg affects the mainhand fully and the offhand by whatever % it is supposed to. So without talents, +2dmg would be +2/+1.

Originally Posted by Mimesis

I noticed the sheet is still using the old values for Vengeance Wrap in stead of the new one. Also i can't seem to find a way to socket cloaks even after changed the cloaks stats.

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=24259

Unfortunately, changed items are not something I was scanning for, only new items. And since there were no worthwhile cloaks with sockets (just like rings), I did not implement them.

Originally Posted by Eldia

Hi pf,
First of all, thanks for working on the spreadsheet!

Question: Is the weapon skill rating correct? I think the racial bonus (+5 sword/mace) is not consistent with weapon expertise and weapon +skill rating. For example, if I have 2/2 weapon expertise selected, under the talent cell for +sword/fist/dagger, it says 29, but for human it's still 5 (for sword and mace). I think the racial one should be changed to the weapon rating equivalent?

Also where does the 2.9 multipler (on the talent cell) comes from? According to wiki (http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Combat_Ratings_System), the multipler at level 70 is 3.9... so 3.9 skill rating would give +1 weapon skill.

Thanks pf.

You are correct. They all should be multiplied by 3.9. The 2.9 was simply a typo followed by copy/pasting.

Xizenta · 02/19/07, 3:50 PM

Originally Posted by pf

You are correct. They all should be multiplied by 3.9. The 2.9 was simply a typo followed by copy/pasting.

So this mean anything in the result of weapon skill and it's effect to your bottom line damage? Or is it just a number displayed for the user somewhere on the sheet that's wrong.

Wondering about the accuracy of difference between my Grips of the Deftness and Fel Leather Gloves.

feanor831 · 02/20/07, 3:19 AM

First of great sheet! Following you and kalman's work for a long time and sad t osee you go. Kalman you playing a mage now? Always like you engineering names for chars.

I have been playing around with the sheet and there are a few pointers i would like if you can clear up for me.

1) If i for instance remove all buffs, the "additional DPS" differs from the unbuffed? Why is that, cause with swords the difference is 90 dps and and with daggers 60. (vindicator,latros rift/whisp and rift/shiv used)

2) The other thing i was wondering is about sword spec modeling and weapon speeds. Is latros truly the best DPS offhand sword in the game? Not sure how come there is like 40dps difference between revenger and latros buffed with 0.1 speed and added stats.

Im unsure, if latro's is better than Gladiator swiftblade for offhand. Seeing that 15-30 DPS difference between them. PF, is this correct? Modeling of the offhand swords? Can the stats, with the extra swords procs really value to such a high DPS value? Even compared to revenger its like 40 dps difference buffed.

With lathros and say vindicator, it looks like sword spec DPS is way better than mutilate with riftmaker and whispering blade. Combat daggers beat it marginally but with position requirement make it lacking.

Does this mean that combat swords are highest DPS for raid rogue if he has lathros? Lathros that good? Not sure that modeling is correct ....

Zoro · 02/20/07, 5:39 AM

Originally Posted by pf

If a failed Kidney Shot always requires 25 energy (ie no relentless/quick recovery), then using the set bonus is most likely a waste of energy. If this is the case, there is no reason to model it, especially considering gaining the proc after an immune message is most likely an unintended bug that will probably be fixed.

Sorry, I was musing on how you'd implement it for the specific case as mentioned that you're hitting an immune mob hence no loss of CP. My mind naturally started down the path 'and how would you implement this for all cases?'
In the first case, you just write the new cycle with a '25 energy for 160 haste for 9s' portion around the CD of KS.

On to the more general case.
Dropping relentless on my cycle drops me from a 5s/5r to a 5s/4r.
The question would then be - does using KS on a relentless proc make up for the loss of that 1 cb more in the rupture?

That works out at around 321 damage unbuffed for me at the moment.

Simply adding an extra 160 haste to my sheet produces a dps gain of 37.4.
Over 9s that's 337 damage.
On average over the cycle you'll have 1.2 relentless procs on your 5 point finishers, for an average damage gain of 404. So 13 dps more.

That's neglecting the relentless proc chance on your KS reducing the cost of getting your 5 points.

Tried it for group buffed, less of an improvement but still one there. Tried it for raid buffed and it dissappeared. Though I suspect anything you're raiding is HS immune and hence your into the first scenario of no lost CBs.

That's the hash job 'if you Relentless, model it as if you don't then add Haste effect' implementation. Seems way more complex to work it out if you don't have relentless already.

Edit: gah. Usual bonehead manouver getting Relentless and Ruthlessness the wrong way round. Least I didn't sake Remorselessness. Was it entirely neccessary to have so many low tier assassination talents that sound the same?

Triton · 02/20/07, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by feanor831

With lathros and say vindicator, it looks like sword spec DPS is way better than mutilate with riftmaker and whispering blade. Combat daggers beat it marginally but with position requirement make it lacking.

Does this mean that combat swords are highest DPS for raid rogue if he has lathros? Lathros that good? Not sure that modeling is correct ....

I just switched from Combat Swords with Vindicator/Latro's to Combat Daggers with Emerald Ripper/Latro's and my DPS is noticeably improved, especially on trash with Backstab critting for 1800 - 2250. I'm working on getting a Warp Splinter's Thorn for my OH and expect another significant damage bump from that.

Given the quality of my former swords, the fact that I don't have an offhand dagger yet, and a glance ahead at itemization for potential upgrade daggers/swords I don't think I'll be going back to swords for PVE anytime soon. I'll still keep them around for solo questing/grinding though.