I redid his math by adding the offhand penalty and latros still came in last place.
Sure it shortened the gap, and adding poisons + windfury + a better cycle from dpe gain may bridge that gap (as shown in the spreadsheet)

Prior to the patch I computed Blazefury > Latro's ~= Blazeguard. Latro's was more damage, but defensive stats on Blazeguard kept it close. With the changes to Tier 5 rogues at that level of itemization are going to tend to have a lot more sta than previously, which makes defensive stats somewhat less valuable. So at a rogue of an itemization level where Blazefury actually is a possibility, I think the order is Quickblade > Blazefury > Latro's > Blazeguard.

Also, the fact that Quickblade is much, much, *much* easier to get than Blazefury is sort of an added bonus for it as well.

It should come in last place(and will on the sheet unless you have bluepost +skill enabled). Blazefury is the 95dps model. Blazeguard on the other hand is pretty identical to Latro's sword.

When using the sheet to make comparisons like this, force the stat cells on weapons to be 0 since thats closer to how hand comparisons are made. Also, hand comparisons usually do not take into account little things such as: more cpot procs/sword procs = more mainhand poisons/mongoose procs. When I do all this, I find that QB > BF > LSS > BG.

Also, I want to state again that 4s/5r predicted by the sheet with NB 2piece bonus and 3/3 snd is not better than 5s/5r in real functionality, its a problem with how the cycle sheet improperly handles slack energy, and as stated before, 5s/5r/3e or whatever is better and proper watching of CPot procs should be able to maintain it better.

If i just could figure out how to make the spreadsheet use 5s/5r/3e cycles i would add that *sigh*

I think the difference comes down to buffs.
With heavy buffs and this new quickblade, latro's will still outdps it slightly...
Unbuffed the quickblade is better.

Because of the way that the offhand penalty works, an increase in attack power and crit is going to be more appreciated in heavier sword spec procs and combat potency 15 energys will lead to a heavier sinister strike.

Buffs scale better with this faster offhand and overshadow that flat dps gain in the tooltips between latros and quickblade.

After all, youre talking about skipping that favorable weapon speed just for an 88.1 base over a 71.8... Obviously that 17 damage per second you sacrifice everything for becomes something to laugh at with the benefits of a faster offhand considered.

Well the spreadsheet shows them equal at max 2.1 consumables, meaning that any time you arent max buffed the quickblade is better, meaning its the best 2.1 offhand not including new drops from tk/bt

I'm sure it is with the blue post turned off. Of course, since our recent findings indicate that the blue post is incorrect at least in part, and it never made much sense in the first place, it's probably more accurate to have it turned off.

Was blue +skill post off
Glad Slicer MH
301 hit rating.

somehow i cant add romeo trinket (30 hit rating for now) the hit rating turns into 1000%'s

Right click cell -> Format Cells -> Change it from Percentage to Number

Probably been asked before but, PF what do you do for a living. If you dont mind me asking of course.

Out of curiosity, has anyone gotten a chance to test the new glancing blow mechanics on the PTRs? I'd try it myself but I can't seem to get my rogue transferred over there =/

On Romeo's Poison Vial:



That result with 289 hit rating/Precision/Weapon Expertise, no swings missed/parried/dodged. Can someone add this to the spreadsheet? I can add new items fine but I'm not sure where to go with an item with a chance on hit. Really wondering now if the proc can lift this trinket above Hourglass/etc.

Does anyone have an ssc updated sheet ( the one posted 2 pages back wont activate any socket bonus for me)

EDIT: found it.

Also tried my hand at adding 5s/5r/3e
The cycle dps (with inputted gear) for it is 529.92 vs the 530.24 of 4s/5r. (I realize 5s/5r/3e is much more flexible and therefore preffered. I've also heard there are some issues with 2pc netherblade in the spreadsheet)


http://files.filefront.com//;7239481;;/

http://www.koaschten.de/wow/beta/RogueDPS_2.2.3c.xls is the version i use atm modified with latest drops.

Feint, single-handingly fucking stuff up, one forum and program at a time =)

btw, bug with current spreadsheet, can't get 4pc Netherblade to activate =/

Correct me if I'm wrong... but on the Gear_Buffs page, cell I77 is:

=(SUM(I10:I75)+E77+D77+100)*deadliness

Shouldn't the 100 be 120? This cell seems to always be 20 points lower than it should be (give or take a point because my agility was rounded incorrectly on the spreadsheet). I took off all my gear and subtracted my strength (92) and my agi (163) from my listed AP (375) and I got 120, not 100.
I just want to make sure I'm not missing something...

Sorry for the intrusion, but being a theory craft junkie, I can't seem to help myself...

Considering the combat potency and sacrifice between OH dps to gain more speed:

How close Latro's and Gladiator Quickblades stats are damage wise? Not counting DPS / speed difference at this point? In the following calculations I assumed that they are fairly equal.

I made short calculations that showed thta Latro's generates one extra sinister strike every 58.8 seconds compared to Quickblade. Now the DPS difference between these 2 OH's is 12.225 with OH spec, unless I'm mistaken, which would mean that if your sinister on average makes more than 719dmg, Latro's would be better. However, this calculation doesn't take in to account the fact the that the stats in weapons are different, nor that Latro's gives more poison applications. I'm assuming 0 misses here and no armor. Armor doesn't seem to affect the calculations anyway, since it decreases the sinister hit at the same time it decreases the DPS-cap between weapons.

1) is SnD'd speed of Latros 0.98? 2) OH spec makes your OH weapon deal 75% damage, right?

Am I completely lost here?

I'm going to weigh in on this even though it was a couple of pages ago.

When Valar and I initially put together the spreadsheet, the intent was for raiding rogues to be able to compare various equipment and enchantment options with each other, in order to determine what gear they should use to maximize their DPS. In the early versions, the sheet assumed you basically had only one combat daggers build, and that there was only one cycle you were using (5 SnD). Over time the sheet got more and more comprehensive, with many build options, and after Pf took over, Kalman's cycle calculator got integrated as well, along with a host of other improvements and additions.

But in any event, getting back to the start of the spreadsheet: in order to facilitate the comparison of gear, a control case was needed. By far the easiest control case was perpetual combat. Now while it's true that no one is in combat foever, it's untrue that perpetual combat is a poor model for the raiding rogue. Granted, I haven't seen any of the post-Gothik content (as that's where we were at when I quit 7 months ago), but in classic WoW, perpetual combat was actually a pretty good model for raiding rogues. Sure, there are fights like the Twin Emps or Chromaggus where your combat is more like (20s on, ~10s off), and there are other fights like Sartura where you have very little uptime. But on most trash pulls, it actually turns out that perpetual combat is a pretty decent model for the amount of damage you will output. While it's certainly not 100% accurate, it's pretty close. And of course, the perpetual combat model really shines on fights like Patchwerk where basically you have 6-7 consecutive minutes of uninterrupted combat. On most Patchwerk fights I could put in my exact gear and buffs I had for the fight, and my actual vs. predicted damage was actually within ~2%, which I'd consider pretty damn accurate.

So, what makes the spreadsheet's combat model inaccurate for fights like Twin Emps, and what makes modelling such a fight so difficult? Well, primarily:

• There is no consistent cycle you can maintain for these fights. No one has gone through an entire Twin Emps fight using the same exact cycle. The amount of time you're off-target will vary on a number of factors (how close to the timer did the teleport actually happen, sometimes you have to bandage due to an uppercut, did a tank mess up, etc).
• Because there's no consistent cycle, there's no way to accurately model how much energy your finishing moves are wasting. And you won't even have a 100% SnD uptime during the points you are fighting (though it should be close to that).
• The yellow:white ratio will be skewed noticably. In a fight like Twin Emps, you lose 100% of white attack opportunities when you aren't on a target. However, you can lose anywhere between 0 to 100% of special attack opportunities, which will vary depending on how much energy you had when you disengaged, and how long it takes you to reengage, and on your cycle which we know will already have some variance. The skewed yellow:white ratios is one of the reasons why Seal Fate dagger builds do rather well on these sorts of fights.

There's lots of other smaller things as well, but these are the primary issues you'd run into. I really don't see an accurate way you can easily model all the variables, unless you just guess at many parameters. But if you guess at parameters, then you're basically just fudging the numbers in order to suit whatever in-game results you get from DPS parsing (which doesn't necessarily mean that it's accurate). One of the things that we really tried to do with all the calculations is to make them transparent and "pure" from a mathematic standpoint as possible. Sure, there are some variables that have to be slightly guessed at (such as AC of bosses), and a few other things which are based on real parses (mostly in the department of proc rates and such). But overall, the sheet was intended to be a simulation of combat mechanics based on our understanding of how the combat system works.

Armor affects the white damage more, you get more combo points with faster OH's, using rupture ignores armor, as does the increased poison DPS. You also get more WF, more uptime on procs like dragonspine/mongoose or whatever you use, and the swings from SS isn't affected by glancing blows. Speed/CP seems to scale better compared to the white damage. Upping armor to 34% loss (66% reduction), 25.5% base miss rate, 15.769 per %, with +0.1 hit/skill and increasing +hit to the cap shows Blazefury below Gladiator's Quickblade and Latro's slightly above Quickblade, in DPS gain, for me. 2500 AP, 24% crit, WF MH, deadly OH, no mongoose.

1) 1.3 speed gives a 0.77 multiplier, Latro's should be around 1.07-1.08.
2) Yeah.

Sorry for being a bit offtopic. I'm looking for a basic parser addon which will track how many hits/crits/misses/glancing/dodges/parries I get, can't seem to find one on curse/worldofwar.

And another thing which I have been wondering about..

With a full pve-combat daggers build, currently with gladiator's shanker/shiv, precision/wex and around 190 hit rating, why does it calculate that +16 ap gems give a lot more dps than +8 hit or +4 agi +4 hit. Surely as combat daggers hit should be more valuable than AP or Crit up to around 260 or so.

Thanks.

If you haven't turned on AP buffs from other sources (consumables and party,) that number could be lacking to the point where raw attack power is worth more than half an agility or hit. Try again with windfury/battleshout or a flask turned on.

It's normal under 1700 ap for that stat to be so valuable.