Cel

Yeah, I actually noticed that I was looking at a new spreadsheet and it had default gear... with my gear, crit isn't worth quite as much. Preferred buffs are significantly affected by gear and such, I see.... adjusted the Fel Strength is up by 4pts.

And I tested my download link... it works fine for me. o_O edit: and now it's not... hmmm off to find another host.


edit: New Links:
First Link:
http://www.uploadpower.com/en/download.php?id=1F3BBE321 < with broken VLOOKUP and the AEP chart, etc.

Second Link:
http://www.uploadpower.com/en/download.php?id=31A544481 < with just left sidebar with AEP

(If anyone knows a better host service that doesn't have things like "wait time"... let me know)

Hmm... sounds likely, I'll poke around and try to fix it. Thanks. :]

"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge." - Bertrand Russell

Alpha is recruiting... go go.

 

• Shifft

I was testing out a 1s/5r cycle yesterday in serpentshrine (just trash + tidewalker), and it worked AMAZINGLY WELL. The only rogues in the raid were myself and another rogue who I've been mostly even with in damage in the past, and we were in the same group with battle shout and an enhancement shaman.

Damage meters for trash ended up with me doing 11.2% raid damage and him doing 9.5%, and for tidewalker attempts it was a significantly bigger difference than that, to the point that I still did more damage after being tombed three times to his none. He confirmed afterwards that he was doing the same thing he had always done, so I can only assume that 1s/5r is THAT MUCH BETTER than 5s/5r/3e or 5s/5r cycles.

 

◊ Kalman

Are you actually surprised that 1s/5r wins on trash? 5s cycles take time to get going, they're going to lose badly on trash. Compare boss damage.

(This is another example of why trusting the sheet blindly is a bad idea.)

http://mmorchive.net

The WoW forums, explained:

 

pf

1s/5r is not significantly better than 5s/5r. With mangle and 25% armor reduction, you see less than a 4% dps gain. You are saying you gained almost 18%. Either you were using a really bad cycle previously, or he was not performing up to par, or maybe you were further ahead of him than you previously thought. Without mangle, you see about a 1.5% dps gain going to 1s/5r. What I'm saying is the math is not there to back up your conclusion. Something else changed that caused the gap to be that large.

 

Trazhenko

I have to agree here. Trash is a completely different situation, and rarely do you get to work a standard cycle because targets die too fast. With the heavy white damage bias in a combat build, getting SnD up early is top priority. You can't go putting 5 CP on the first target you meet and hit SnD the moment it falls over dead. That 5 pt SnD is wonderfully efficient, unless you're not hitting anything while it ticks away.

I almost always go with backstab->snd at the beginning of a trash pull. With SS I'd prolly go for 2 pts since you'll be able to do that without waiting on your energy much.

 

Siq

thx pf, this works fine

now, if xs/5r with snd cut has a negative value in the L column, it has exactly the same dps value as the non cutted cycle
and, of course, now increasing snd time doesn't cause the dps to rise for any possitiv value in the L column

i also added the Deathblow X11 Goggles to the head items, ~5dps better than netherblade facemask

http://www.savefile.com/files/658289

 

Sokkou

Anyone figured out to how model Warp Spring Coil yet?

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30450

 

• koaschten

yeye slap me for quoting myself
my opinion, not worth modeling.

 

• Aldriana

Well, proc rate seems to be 3% (that's what the thottbot entry for the trinket says, and I ran a quick experiment on test server which gave data consistant with this - I for details, but I had 10 procs in ~250 sinister strikes and ~50 eviscerates.) So it'd just need to be made to lower enemy armor by 100*(1-(1-x)^15), where x is .03 times the number of instant attacks landed per second. Seems like it should be straightforward to plug in, although my Excel skills aren't quite up to snuff.

On a related note: if people want to try modeling Deathmantle 4/5, preliminary testing indicated a proc rate of roughly 1.5%

 

Siq

I tried including this and i came upon one question:
so its "200-300" nature damage, can i take the "fullresist" value for this proc too?
if so, the actual dmg per proc should be 250*fullresist, right?

if thats correct, it should deal almost exactly the same dmg as abacus (at least for the equip I used for the test, fist combat with dragonspine as the other trinket)

 

Swarley

Maybe some info on this was posted but I can't seem to find any. With 2.2.3 version of pf's spreadsheet gladiators fist w/ combat spec was a sizable increase in dps over combat daggers with the shanker however with 2.2.4 that dps went completely away and now the shanker is far above what you would get with fists, according to the spreadsheet of course.

Was there some flaw with how dps was being calculated with the gladiators fist compared to the shanker, I know some bugs were fixed in the new spreadsheet?

 

pf

You used ueec on the buffed cycles page. This can cause some problems with buffs like improved faerie fire.

There is no perfect way to model armor effects on the sheet due to circular references. TNB was modeled using guesses about how often you would hit, not exactly how often the sheet said. A similar model could be made for this, but considering the thing is green quality, I'm sure you have some blue trinkets lying around that you would prefer to use. BTW, I showed an estimation of how much its worth a few pages back when it was first mentioned.

 

Darien

Regarding The Night Blade, does anyone know if the proc is added to the same debuff stack if you are dual wielding them? From the numbers I've seen, it's not really worth buying as a single weapon post-patch, but if a mutilate rogue had 2 of them the proc rate would be close to what it is now (I think).

I was considering buying another one based on this line of thinking, but do you all think that would be worth it?

 

• Aldriana

I guess I'm not seeing why that's the case - why would the number of attacks depend on how much armor penetration you have? Seems to me it should only change how much damage the attacks do, not how many are being made. I guess it must have something to do with the cycle-selection algorithm? Seems like there should be a work-around for this.

 

pf

The modeling in the sheet is not correct if its dual wielded. It would not be hard to fix, but I figured it was unique when i did it and did not think to make it work that way.

The number off yellow attacks comes from the cycle sheet. The cycle sheet needs to have the amount of armor applied before it chooses its best cycle because rupture is not affected by armor, which means to choose the correct cycle depends on armor. So, when trying to model that, you would have circular references, ie you would have to estimate the number of attacks per second based on the build (which would not be hard, but does mutilate count as 1 or 2 attacks?) This is how TNB is modeled.

 

Xizenta

Counts as two, one with each hand. I dunno if that question was rhetorical or not.

 

Tosa

Is there a good reason to doubt the blue post on +skill? With the box checked, Shapeshifter's Signet is the best ring that is within reasonable reach for me . With the box unchecked, it's a downgrade.

 

• Aldriana

If you scroll back about 15 pages in this thread you'll find an extensive discussion of it. Post 971, for instance, explains why the blue post is most likely flawed

 

• Freddie

Ah. I guess that explains why Icon of Unyielding Courage is unmodeled as well. I just picked it up for my rogue, and the sheet shows a drop in DPS from my Core of Ar'kelos... though it might actually be a downgrade anyway

 

sabe

I've read several threads in different places about Anesthetic poison being bugged, proccing more than normal etc. While trying it out, I noticed something strange. Many of you may be familiar with launching attacks by running and turning around sharply, allowing you to land a cheapshot on a sap without breaking it etc. Using the same method, I proceeded to kick a slave in heroic SP, to bring it closer to the group. I performed no white damage on the slave, only kick but 2 procs on anesthetic actually went off, presumably on each on my weapons. Is this odd? Or has this already been investigated?

 

Siq

http://www.savefile.com/files/664643

Bugfixes:
- eec instead of ueec in the Buffed Cycle Time calculations for xs/5r snd cut cycles
- somehow there was a "163" for troll's base agility value, changed it back to 25+135 (like it was in 2.2.3)

And as stated above, I tried including Romeo's Poison Vial.
The calculations for the proc-dmg are in the dps tabs right under the "wastewalker 4p" calculations. (don't know wether this place is right for something like this)
It would be very nice if somebody could look over this formula, I'm not sure wether this is correct.

greez Siq

*edit*
Somehow, the Dagger Combat Cycles need some love.
While experimenting with some equip sets for dagger combat, it did happen that changing Ruthlessness from 2 (3s/5s/5r best cycle) to 3 (5s/4r best cycle) results in a 40-60 dps increase. Doesn't look quite realistic at the moment
*edit2*
It looks like 5s/3r and 5s/4r are good dagger combat cycles with netherblade 2 bonus.
Still somehow low dps, was only 5dps above the "buffed 1s/5r snd cut" cycle for fist combat, not really worth the "behind target" stress :/

 

Saki

I have tested this with 2 TNBs on the PTR, and it clearly shows that they add to the same buff slot. Whilst DW-ing them, I've been able to get similar results as live with 1 TNB (frequent stacks of 3). There was not once where I've gotten two individual buffs

 

Grunge

Has anyone else noticed that stacking certain gems (stats) resulted in higher dps than balanced sets.
Especially for a mutilate rogue, after playing around with rigid dawnstone vs glinting noble topaz, I tried smooth dawnstones and there was a 2-3 dps increase.
Also sometimes the increase didn't become apparent before switching out several gems.

Anyone else experienced this?

Fans glory to the Gladiators,
Gods glory to the Heroes.

 

• koaschten

WARNING: Bad HACK,
Use Carefully.

I tried modeling the t6 2piece bonus by changing "unbuffed dps M31" and "buffed dps M31" to 1.35. The Result was kinda disappointing, as it was at meeeeh 1dps increase?

worst is, the gear setup with t6 is lacking +hit badly, i socketed +8 hit gems in all slots instead of agi/sta or agi/hit and came out with a +11dps buffed

modified I4 to reflect 6% boost to sinister strike on the unbuffed and buffed sheet. nice boost to start. a nice 16 / 24 dps boost.

WARNING: Bad HACK!
http://www.koaschten.de/wow/RogueDPS...6_modified.xls