That's why I assumed it went live. I never saw chain sword procs after that patch and I've been combat swords for a long ass time.

Did a quick test on a Flame Caps... only had 2, so it's not definitive, but here's the combat log from it:

http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dgstjm4t_4fm9f9m

It's just a buff, takes your Healthstone cooldown.

Results:

http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?i...resultsul6.jpg

So it looks like it's 20-25% proc rate, and it can crit.... my second Flame Cap got all three of those crits. :o Including the crits (which may have been stupidly good luck) it's ~10dps overall from just autoattacking from the flame procs.

I just autoattacked and I cut the combat log to exactly the 1min the buff was up in both cases, then put the two logs together and parsed it. (note I had a fair number of mongoose procs, so there was some haste.)

I figure I can throw 100 or so attacks (with my 2 1.8 speed daggers and abacus, blade flurry, adrenaline rush and various mongoose procs) in 1 minute, with a 25% proc rate, you're looking at closer to 17 dps overall gain for that 1 minute.

Silly little figuring, but it's something I'd been wondering for some time. :P

So, lets see - 17 dps for 60 sec = 1020 damage

Using the same cooldown, you could pop a thistle tea, which adds 40 damage = 2/3 of a backstab. On Mag tonight I launched 134 backstabs for 208393 damage, meaning that the average backstab does 1555 damage, so 2/3 of a backstab is 1037 damage, plus whatever damage you get from 2/3 of a combo point (which is probably nonzero).

Conclusion? At lower gear/buff levels, flame caps look pretty useful. As gear improves, tea takes over.

Yeah i still have to see something like >this< post nerf. And yes, its a VERY old Screenshot June '06

Flame caps are a 2minute cooldown, whereas tea is 5.

Assuming you can use 2.5 flamecaps for every 1 tea, I would say flame caps win. 1037 + a combo point damage vs. 2550. The nice thing is the caps fit haste cooldowns perfectly, and scales with haste... I didn't use a haste potion while testing, but that would kick it's damage up a fair bit more. Now imagine heroism.

Abacus = 2min, Blade Flurry = 2min, Haste Potion = 2min, Flame Cap = 2min.

/castsequence :]

Come to think of it... I don't really know if it's a proc % or a ppm sort of thing... if it's ppm then they won't scale at all, really.

I think the haste pot will put the flame cap on cd.

Well, presumably you could use caps *between* the teas - do something like tea, cap, cap, repeat.

That may work, but I'm thinking it will trigger the 5min cooldown on the tea when you use the cap. I don't know this for sure, but based on the fact that my healthstone went on a 3 minute cooldown when I used the cap, I'm guessing the tea would do the same and get a 5minute cooldown on the cap's use.

Hrm, I could have sworn that when using 2 items that trigger each other, but have different cooldowns, the additional items triggered weren't put on CD for longer than the item you used, or longer than their normal cooldown.

Like I thought using tea put tea on CD for 5 min and HS on 3, and using HS put HS on CD for 3 min, but Tea also only on 3.

I could be wrong though. The last time I really payed attention to it was when the change first went in, and I used tea during the huhuran 30%->20% stage and then died later 'cuz my healer got silenced and HS was on cooldown, leading me to exclaim a big "WTF Blizz!".

The reason I remember it is because it struck me as strange that while the Cap itself has a 2min cooldown, my healthstone got the full 3minute cooldown for some reason. There's always the chance I'm being dumb and just misread the cooldown on my healthstone, though.

EDIT: Uhhhhhhh I just noticed a huge error in my calculations. If you look at the combat log parse I used to calculate the proc %, you'll notice something unusual :[. I forgot to add the number of crits to the number of hits for the total number of hits... I just used hits without realizing it. (Basically lost 50 swings that landed as crits due to me not noticing that I'd had them tallied up separately.)

This is quite a significant difference in %... down to 5% proc chance, rather than the 25% I'd originally figured. So: Flame Caps are negligible dps.... ~3-4dps rather than 17. Sigh.

Hey guys, I've been lurking on these boards off and on for over a year now and I finally decided to register so that I can hopefully contribute something useful.

I've made a modification to the most recently posted version of the spreadsheet (2.2.4d posted by Siq in post #1301) to include armor reduction as a stat for all item slots. I figured this would be in our best interest to accomidate for future gear that may have armor reduction without cluttering the formula on the buffed and unbuffed DPS pages.

Unfortunately, I seem to be having some trouble with uploading to savefile.com and I don't have any other way of hosting the file. If anyone is willing to upload it for me I can email it to you. If anyone knows of another site that allows free hosting that would be great too.

I'd also like to ask if there is any possibility that Siq and/or Zoro could post a consolidated list (preferably in the intro sheet in the spreadsheet) of all the changes that you guys have made since Pf stopped updating it.

Do you have enchants/gems on the sheet that you don't in game? Are you setting your race correctly?

Everything is identical to how it is in-game (except for maybe a couple stamina/hp enchants).

This is going to seem stupid, but it's managed to thwart me many a day.

Make sure you don't have a carrot/luffa/riding crop/gnomeregan transporter/X equipped instead of your hourglass when you check your crit in-game.

And, unless I'm terribly mistaken, I'm pretty sure that the in-game crit percentage includes the 0.40 from your 10 weapon skill.

I have the exact gear on in-game that I have listed on the spreadsheet, Kytrarewn. And as far as I know, the crit from weapon skill is not added to the in-game display. If it does turn out that it is, then I have .40 more unexplained crit and takes me a further step back in figuring this out.

Unless you can proove it, i'd rather disable the "[x] use new blue post weapon skill" option aswell as check if items are added correctly. Happens that items are stealth-changed.

It really doesn't, though, because an oversight of 13 crit rating, 22.8 agi, or some combination thereof, is a lot easier to figure out in the grand scheme of things through a proc (Though if your AP is accurate, that's probably unlikely to be the problem with Malchazeen at least).

One thing you might want to look at: Were any of your items changed in the upcoming 2.10 patch to add more agi/crit rating? If so, compare the stats on the item with the stats on the spreadsheet, it's possible that one of the updaters put the new stats in a release version accidentally or intentionally, and you didn't notice.

Wasnt there an issue with not having proper lvl 70 base stats for different races in the spreadsheet? Or has that been resolved since? I seem to remember a post by bleedo, or someone else saying the lvl 70 base stats were not correct, but I could be mistaken.

Base stats (agi/str/stam) should be correct. Base AP was wrong (not sure if it has been fixed). If there is a crit % difference, one should make sure all stats are identical to in-game values. That means agi/str/stam/critrating/hitrating/weapon skill. Crit/hit/skill rating get spec bonus's in sheet (so subtract those out). Unclick boss mob defense (sets a .04% crit per skill which is how tooltip crit is defined). If you have made sure everything is identical to in-game values and tooltip crit% does not match the crit% from the sheet, there is likely a calculation error in the sheet somewhere and it should be tracked down. However, I am assuming that there is an issue elsewhere (like boss mob defense and +skill).

I was trying to adjust the different item stats on the spreadsheet for the 2.1 changes, but being the nub I am I havent figured out how to adjust the pulldown menus.

Any help?

You need to unhide the respective sheet for whichever item type you want to edit, then you should be able to see your updated changes in the drop-down.

Everything in mine is accurate. The only thing that throws off some people is that trinkets that add an amount of ap on a cooldown (ie. Core of Ar'kelos) have that effect added as a passive AP. So where the core has a normal passive ap as 52, the sheet shows it as 85.33 - meaning my unbuffed ap shows up as 1632 instead of the normal 1599 ingame.