While continuing to track down this anomaly, I came upon a few other errors on the sheet.

One is the base stats for Night Elves, they are off by a few (3agi and 3stam I believe). Second is that the formula for adding up all the Agi bonuses seems flawed. Unless somehow the values for all the items are added in wrong.

My stats as NE are spot on in v 2.2.4. 495 agi, 281 sta on sheet, 495 agi 281 sta ingame.

Does anyone know if the resist snare/root effects stack?

Fleet footed + Enigmatic Skyfire Diamond + Enchant Boot - Surefooted ?

They all have the same aura effects.

Long time annonymous reader, first time poster.

My guild just downed Gruul for the first time tonight and Recap gave me some interested results in regard to my hit/miss ratios.

I have 350 weap skill (I know, missed it last respec, my bad), 196 hit rating (damn wastewalker 2-pc eludes me ) and Precision.

196 hit rating / 15.77 = 12.43% + 5 (precision) = 17.43% hit boost.

Going by previous posts in this thread, 25.5% base miss chance against a lvl 73 (boss) mob, such as gruul, should give me 8.07% miss chance on white dmg. Recap (cleared right before the fight, so this is JUST Gruul dmg) put me at 11.2% miss (actual misses, after factoring out dodge/parry/block, it was like 19% white swings failed to land). What am I missing? I had close to 1400 white swings, I'm assuming statistical error won't account for a nearly 40% difference between the 8% theoretical and 11% actual miss rate over 1400 swings. Whats going on here?

Also, side note, what are other Combat Dagger rogues getting in terms of Backstab hits on Gruul? I was noticing upper 1900's and lower 2k's.

You mean crits, right?

With an Emerald Ripper I was doing 987 mean / 1045 max non-crit, and 2115 mean / 2291 max crit on our last Gruul kill.

Sometimes that just happens... I've had a 55% glancing rate on Gruul where another rogue on the same kill has had 45%. I remember back one Patchwerk kill a rogue had 18% crit rate, but his gear should have put him closer to 30%.

Thats not new in the sheet though, thats been there forever. I remember earthstrike showing like that long long ago.

First you have to realize that the cycles given are for sustained dps situations only. Trying to build 5 combo points on a spawn on the Hydross fight is not very intelligent. You need to learn to adjust your cycles based on how the fight plays out and how long your uptime is on DPS.

Second, if you come into a sustained DPS situation such as phase 2 Magtheridon you can begin using the cycles.

r = Rupture
e = Eviscerate
s = Slice and Dice

A 1s/5r cycle means you get 1 combo point then use Slice and Dice, then build 5 combo points and use rupture, followed by 1 point Slice and Dice, etc.
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Also, type proper English or the mods will eat your face.

Hey thanks for the clearing up. Anyway I still have a few more questions.

For Combat daggers (15/41/5) what would be the most optimal DPS rotation on a fight like Tidewalker where your just on him dpsing the whole time?

Also what do you suggest for trash before Tidewalker as well? I know trash varies - but in general.

I know this has probaly been posted in this same exact thread but I have scanned 20 pages and cant seem to make sense of finding what I have been looking for (specifically combat daggers). I seriously am sorry for making you guys state what as already been said. Sorry again. BUT I MUST KNOW :]

-Your bad rogue.

As far as finding your best cycle, a good place to start is to use the spreadsheet this thread is all about. Plug in your gear and your spec and it'll spit back a cycle for you to use. If you understand the posts being made here, you will notice that there are a few problems in the sheet that are being worked out (most notably the Netherblade set bonus for SnD) which may alter your cycle some what, but the cycles that are in the current version of the spreadsheet are solid.

http://rogue.bleedo.net if you don't care to go back to the first post in the thread. :P

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Another side note: Get some confidence in your stabbing... >_> Calling yourself a bad rogue and being a bad rogue aren't always independent of one another.

So once I figured out how to adjust the values on the spreadsheet I plugged in the 2.1 values for the gladiator weapons. No earthshattering news here as far as dmg (maces still suck QQ), but I was suprised that latro's was still a better OH than quickblade.

As it has been said before in this thread Talon of Azshara + latros will be the best DPS combo outside of combat daggers.

This was discussed about 8 pages back, and I believe the conclusion that was reached was that for buffed dps, with the blue post unchecked, Gladiator's beats Latro's. Not by a whole heck of a lot, of course, but it does win.

Add in the fact that the Quickblade is going to be 1.5 speed next patch, it's a very clear upgrade in that regard.

The computations in question assumed the 1.5 speed. At 1.8 it's clearly inferior, but at 1.5 it takes the lead. A good rule of thumb is that each .1 speed is worth about 10 dps on an OH. So 2.1 Gladiator's is as good as a 78 dps 1.4 speed sword, and Blazefury is as good as a 75 dps 1.4 speed sword - hence both beat Latro's, which is 72 dps. The 2.0.x gladiator's sword, however, is the equivalent of a 48 dps 1.4 speed sword, and hence loses badly.

Oh wow... that is impressive. Assuming Fist spec, would it be worth while to use a Sunblade, or Shiv?

Even after unhiding the weapon sheet and changing the speed and damage range on the Gladiator's Quickblade, with the new blue post unchecked, i see ~1 buffed dps upgrade from latro's to the quickblade.

Yeah I am going to have to fiddle around with it again then to see. I unchecked it and still see a 4 dps lead by Latro's. It's quite possible its because of the gear setup/spec of course. I assume that my adding of the 31 hr poison vial to the trinket menu without adjusting the rest of my gear is prolly throwing alot of it off, as I highly doubt having 340 hr is going to show optimal dps.

Yes, Crits. I have SCT sticky crits, so I often miss non-crits in the wash of white hits. Whats your AP at for that fight, Triton, I'm using a Gladiator Shanker, and getting lower numbers. (10% lower :S).


I'm still surprised at such a difference in the miss rate.. 8 to 11% over a non-trivial data sample. But hey, I'll trust you guys, thanx for the input.

I managed to solve my "mystery crit rating" issue. As it turns out, the in-game display is wrong. I went back on the sheet and added everything up and it all turned out correct. I did the same using in-game numbers and again it was all the same. Then I hovered over my Crit% and noticed it said I had '193 CR' when the actual numbers added up to 205 CR. GG Blizzard and its faulty display.

Edit: My own backstab numbers on our latest Gruul kill are hits: 868 mean / 981 max and crits: 1946 mean / 2225 max with minimal, if any, consumables used.

I would use the sheet as a way to compare relative results for gear combinations but would not use it to evaluate certain build options because the sheet does not do a good job of estimating actual raid results. The same goes for use trinkets and cycles. This is not a complaint or a criticism - its just the sheet is not intended to estimate such results. For example, as has been stated here several times, the DPS sheet's intent is to simulate a fight that never happens, i.e., a perpetual on-single-target DPS encounter. Meaning the absolute results of the sheet can't be validated in-game. But the relative results of one gear setup versus another can be determined fairly well with the sheet. Just don't use it to compare say a Mutilate build to a combat build.

The backstab variations could very well be things like Curse of Recklessness, Farie fire, battle shout, ect ect.

Regarding using a dagger in combat fist spec in order to gain more CP procs: this will payoff. At least until the gladiator offhand weapons will be quicker. My older calculations showed me that Warpsplinters Thorn -> Feltooth Eviscerator -> Dirge -> Sunblade -> Gladiators Shiv (?) was the way to go. This was due to the fact that there were virtually no good OH fists availible. The fist OH from Botanica doesn't compare too well to the Thorn for example because having a 1.3 OH compared to a 1.6 OH is huge, even if you loose some crit on your offhand.