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Old 05/02/07, 11:54 AM   #1376
Paroxism
Glass Joe
 
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Night Elf Rogue
 
Lightning's Blade
Originally Posted by Mem View Post
Regarding using a dagger in combat fist spec in order to gain more CP procs: this will payoff. At least until the gladiator offhand weapons will be quicker. My older calculations showed me that Warpsplinters Thorn -> Feltooth Eviscerator -> Dirge -> Sunblade -> Gladiators Shiv (?) was the way to go. This was due to the fact that there were virtually no good OH fists availible. The fist OH from Botanica doesn't compare too well to the Thorn for example because having a 1.3 OH compared to a 1.6 OH is huge, even if you loose some crit on your offhand.
Sorry if this was answered, but did they fix the Combat Fist bug?

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Old 05/02/07, 12:52 PM   #1377
Mooz
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Rogue
 
Uther
If this has been asked/discussed already, I apologize, but there's a user with the name "Netherblade" on the boards and it sort of clutters the search.

How does the 4pc Netherblade bonus stack with Ruthlessness?

With 3 points in Ruthlessness and the 4pc bonus, do you get a 75% chance to add a CP (60% + 15%) or do you get a 60% chance to get a combo point followed by a 15% chance to get a combo point, thus giving you a 9% chance to get 2 CPs from a single finisher?

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Old 05/02/07, 1:19 PM   #1378
koaschten
In the rear with the gear!
 
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Worgen Rogue
 
Auchindoun (EU)
As you get the netherblade bonus even if you didnt specc ruthlessness they HAVE to stack additive

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Old 05/02/07, 1:51 PM   #1379
Mooz
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Rogue
 
Uther
Well, I guess I'll answer my own question. On thott, they're two different spells: Ruthlessness is "Ruthlessness" (http://www.thottbot.com/s14161) which applies the Ruthlessness effect and the 4pc Netherblade is "Finisher Combo" (http://www.thottbot.com/s37168) which applies the "Seal Fate" effect.

It seems from looking at the data that they'd proc separately and give you a chance to get 2 CPs out of a single finisher. Just looking to find confirmation one way or the other on it.

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Old 05/02/07, 5:19 PM   #1380
Xizenta
Von Kaiser
 
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Troll Rogue
 
Dark Iron
That is a good question Mooz. I hope someone can provide some insight on that to help me decide whether or not I want to start bidding on more pieces.

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Old 05/02/07, 8:11 PM   #1381
 Andeh
The Titleless
 
Andeh
Goblin Rogue
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Mooz View Post
Well, I guess I'll answer my own question. On thott, they're two different spells: Ruthlessness is "Ruthlessness" (http://www.thottbot.com/s14161) which applies the Ruthlessness effect and the 4pc Netherblade is "Finisher Combo" (http://www.thottbot.com/s37168) which applies the "Seal Fate" effect.

It seems from looking at the data that they'd proc separately and give you a chance to get 2 CPs out of a single finisher. Just looking to find confirmation one way or the other on it.
I'm pretty certain they wouldn't. I can't recall EVER getting 2 CPs after a crit Evis in a SF/Ruthlessness build. Feel free to correct me though.

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Old 05/02/07, 8:25 PM   #1382
Mooz
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Rogue
 
Uther
Originally Posted by Andeh View Post
I'm pretty certain they wouldn't. I can't recall EVER getting 2 CPs after a crit Evis in a SF/Ruthlessness build. Feel free to correct me though.
Seal Fate (the talent) won't ever give points on an Evis crit since Evis isn't an ability that adds CPs. ("Your critical strikes from abilities that add combo points ...")

Whereas the Netherblade bonus and Ruthlessness call out on finishing moves as their requirements.

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Old 05/03/07, 5:26 AM   #1383
 sp00n
banned
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Wrathbringer (EU)
It's interesting that they've chosen to call Seal Fate in the "Finisher Combo" proc and not the already existing Ruthlessness.
This can mean various things:
a) They don't want it to stack (stacking as in you get two CPs), so they are using two different spells.
b) They want it to stack, but stacking the same spells would have only increased the chance of getting one CP.
c) They want it to stack, but they messed up.

It should be rather easy to test, just smash 1 CP evis to your target.
Even with only rank 2 Ruthlessness, you should have a 6% chance for a "double" proc, or every 17th eviscerate.


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Old 05/03/07, 5:56 AM   #1384
koaschten
In the rear with the gear!
 
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Worgen Rogue
 
Auchindoun (EU)
They stack.

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Old 05/03/07, 9:51 AM   #1385
Mooz
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Rogue
 
Uther
Nice! Thanks for the confirmation, Koa.

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Old 05/03/07, 2:37 PM   #1386
viji
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Warrior
 
Executus (EU)
Originally Posted by koaschten View Post
They stack.
Sorry to go offtopic. But what addon is it that makes your Name plates look like that? (the healthbar over the NPC's head)

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Old 05/03/07, 6:53 PM   #1387
derelictfrog
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Aman'Thul
Any reason why 1 and 2 points in ruthlessness give the same dps? (The maths gives the same combo point return or a bug in the sheet?) Using my gear/spec and the default gear/spec from a fresh one i downloaded i get the same problem.


And also the 2.2.4 sheet is called 2.2.3b at the top of the Intro tab and there is no new changes for a .4 listed. Not sure if u changed the .3b to .4 or if .4 was a new bug fix release with no notes etc.


1st time poster, long time troll, keep up the good work! Very good discussion in here.

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Old 05/03/07, 7:09 PM   #1388
Un
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Rogue
 
Eredar
Originally Posted by derelictfrog View Post
Any reason why 1 and 2 points in ruthlessness give the same dps? (The maths gives the same combo point return or a bug in the sheet?) Using my gear/spec and the default gear/spec from a fresh one i downloaded i get the same problem.
If you have the willpower to scan the majority of this thread I think you'll find this question has been asked a few times. IIRC the reason being that with a combat dagger build going from 2/3 Ruth to 3/3 Ruth does not consistently give you enough extra combo points to actually change your finisher cycle to something that provides more dps efficiently, so the sheet assumes that extra procs from 3/3 Ruthlessness will be wasted considering that with combat daggers there are times when you're at 5/5 combo points, at full energy, with a few seconds left on SnD, and the apropriate thing to do is "waste" a combo point by squeezing in another BS (instead of refreshing SnD early, popping a 5pt rupture, or wasting energy by just sitting at 100 for over 2 seconds).

Common sense indicates that 3/3 Ruthlessness will give you better dps than 2/3 Ruthlessness for short fights where you don't get much of a sustained cycle. But probably not by a ton. Ruthlessness gives better payout to more finisher heavy builds, like Mutilate and combat swords/fists/mace.

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Old 05/04/07, 9:23 AM   #1389
Devion
Glass Joe
 
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Undead Rogue
 
Draenor (EU)
Originally Posted by viji View Post
Sorry to go offtopic. But what addon is it that makes your Name plates look like that? (the healthbar over the NPC's head)
Aloft

I raid for the Professor Plums

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Old 05/04/07, 1:17 PM   #1390
mih
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Rogue
 
Mannoroth (EU)
used Siqs file from #1301.

- 2.1 Items Added
- Patch 6441 changes added
- add orc racial @ lvl 70 (282ap*15/120 hope its correct)

http://www.savefile.com/files/692853

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Old 05/04/07, 1:50 PM   #1391
Cel
Great Tiger
 
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Night Elf Rogue
 
Ysera
Originally Posted by mih View Post
used Siqs file from #1301.

- 2.1 Items Added
- Patch 6441 changes added
- add orc racial @ lvl 70 (282ap*15/120 hope its correct)

http://www.savefile.com/files/692853
Two thoughts cause I'm a nub:

What is Patch 6441?

Are glancing changes included?

Thanks for working on the sheet. :] Hopefully some people here can check your work for accuracy and we can go from there.

"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge." - Bertrand Russell

Alpha is recruiting... go go.

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Old 05/04/07, 2:10 PM   #1392
mih
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Rogue
 
Mannoroth (EU)
6441 release at 5/4/07

- updated heroic drop
- updated badge rewards
- new badge helmet
- engineer goggles

only item changes

dont know the accurately glancing changes

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Old 05/04/07, 2:11 PM   #1393
Cel
Great Tiger
 
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Night Elf Rogue
 
Ysera
Originally Posted by mih View Post
6441 release at 5/4/07

- updated heroic drop
- updated badge rewards
- new badge helmet
- engineer goggles

only item changes

dont know the accurately glancing changes
Yeah, I still haven't gotten around to messing with the glancing changes myself.. suppose they're still subject to change before the patch hits live.

"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge." - Bertrand Russell

Alpha is recruiting... go go.

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Old 05/04/07, 2:16 PM   #1394
 Andeh
The Titleless
 
Andeh
Goblin Rogue
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by koaschten View Post
They stack.
Wow, I stand (happily) corrected.

On a side note, I've put in some of the item changes announced today, to see how they shake things up. The buffs to Searing Sunblade make it a very, very good offhand for Fist now (I think with my current gear it was only 0.5 DPS less than the buffed Left Ripper). Midnight Legguards are pretty good now (better DPS than level 70 blues finally), but still inferior to Netherblade.

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Old 05/04/07, 3:47 PM   #1395
Safid
Piston Honda
 
Orc Rogue
 
Bloodhoof
What are the changes to Midnight Legguards?

I'm mut spec and loathe to drop my 4 piece Assassination set bonus but I realize I need to do it sooner or later. I've got the legs but they are barely an upgrade over Asn legs even without the bonus, so I'm interested.

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Old 05/04/07, 4:02 PM   #1396
Fifty
Glass Joe
 
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Human Rogue
 
Genjuros (EU)
Originally Posted by mih View Post
6441 release at 5/4/07

- updated heroic drop
- updated badge rewards
- new badge helmet
- engineer goggles

only item changes
You seem to have forgotten Searing Sunblade, which im very interested in, especially in comparison with the new version of Gladiator's Shiv. If it's possible in any way to get a rough dps comparison or an updated sheet, it'd be really great. Thanks in advance.

Howmuch wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck would chuck wood?

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Old 05/04/07, 4:36 PM   #1397
Darkmiss
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Stormreaver
http://www.worldofraids.com/news/heroic-rewards1.jpg

for the new stats on searing sunblade if anyone hasn't seen it... looks like I'm going to be replacing my gladiators shiv. :x

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Old 05/04/07, 4:38 PM   #1398
mih
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Rogue
 
Mannoroth (EU)
http://www.savefile.com/files/693328

Searing Sunblade + Retainer's Blade fix

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Old 05/04/07, 5:22 PM   #1399
• Aldriana
Mike Tyson
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
Originally Posted by Fifty View Post
You seem to have forgotten Searing Sunblade, which im very interested in, especially in comparison with the new version of Gladiator's Shiv. If it's possible in any way to get a rough dps comparison or an updated sheet, it'd be really great. Thanks in advance.
Rough comparison:

Before they were comperable. Sunblade received a significant buff. Sunblade is now significantly better. Unfortunately my spreadsheet for doing direct gear comparisons is currently set up for swords rather than daggers so I can't give exact number, but my best guess would be that Sunblade is ~15-20 AP-equivalent better now. Not a *huge* upgrade, but a defenite upgrade.

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Old 05/04/07, 6:14 PM   #1400
Flailure
Gnome Connoisseur
 
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Human Paladin
 
Ysera
Originally Posted by Safid View Post
What are the changes to Midnight Legguards?

I'm mut spec and loathe to drop my 4 piece Assassination set bonus but I realize I need to do it sooner or later. I've got the legs but they are barely an upgrade over Asn legs even without the bonus, so I'm interested.

Taken from the rogue boards today:


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