Fifty

Thanks for an extremely fast reply Mih, really appreciate it, with that said, i'd like to comment the changes, first of all, for me atleast, PvP weapons being superior to PvE, in the OH case atleast was realy apsurd, and im oh so glad its fixed now. On the other hand, being a hit addict, the way blizzard made our t5 initially was simply ridiculous to me, even now, some buffed ''editions'' are superior to t4 by such little margains, chest being crap towards Bloodsea, leggings being superior to Netherblade only if a 16ap gem is used and such details make me feel like we got a PvE set in t4 parts and random SSC dps loot, and a PvP set in t5 with the enormous stamina, and zero hit acompanied by blue sockets.

Howmuch wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck would chuck wood?

 

• Aldriana

To some extent - although it's easy enough to make up the hit on gems and other slots, and, frankly, the amount of stamina that's on T5 makes be suspect that there are going to be fights where rogues *need* that kind of stamina for whatever reason. So while I agree that for current instances T5 seems oddly balanced, I suspect we may find a few months down the road that it's really pretty helpful.

 

Europe

This is probably covered elsewhere, but:

I'm at 262 hit, for 16.61%, in the form of 11 rigid dawnstones. My AP is middle of the pack at 1548. 24.02% crit.

Should I swap these with glinting noble topaz (as I've seen many rogues have done)?

I'd lose 44 hit for 44 agility.

I suck at math, but about 2.8% hit for 44 ap and 1.7% crit?

I'm combat with a low speed offhand, so I of course still want all the hit I can get.

Thanks.

 

Mimesis

Use the spreadsheet! With my gear and consumable setup 8agi gems are the best. But it will definitely vary per character.

 

Europe

I actually did that right after I posted. my bad. It ends up being like 4 dps unbuffed, which isn't worth it to me, imo.

I WAS kind of surprised to see that the top rank deadly poison adds more DPS than windfury, though.

 

Opprobrious

No it doesn't. Please don't spread misinformation like that. I think you just haven't discovered where windury is applied in the spreadsheet. Look under the temporary weapon buffs dropdown menu and select windfury. For me, its a 60dps difference in favor of windfury when exchanged head-up with instant poison on the offhand. With deadly on my offhand, applying windfury to my mainhand is a 100dps upgrade.

 

Lukon

Indeed it does, depending on your talent build. With a mutilate spec and DP on your mainhand, swapping to WF can be a small downgrade (10 dps in my case). In reality you would put DP on your offhand, so that WF would give a decent boost (20 dps in my case).

For daggers in general WF doesn't perform as well as it is hyped, since you have fewer MH injected attacks and a faster MH speed than a combat swords build. With mutilate spec you are even worse off, since your dps contribution from poisons is so high.

 

Polynikes73

Hey guys this is a great spreadsheet. One thing is I am new to this so all of that information thrown at me at once is a bit intimidating. Would anyone care to give me a basic idea of exactly what it is I am looking at and how I could better use this chart. Thank You.

 

Opprobrious

I'm pretty sure that windfury isn't just a single extra attack but a extra attack with a 1.5 second duration ap buff. There also isn't a hidden cooldown on the totem. I don't believe its modeled accuately on the spreadsheet.

Who rolls with DP on the mainhand? Its significantly more dps to use instant mh and Deadly oh. If you use envenom, you shouldn't be.

 

• Latito

For 95% of rogues, yes. Or even better, WF MH, DP OH. There are however a few fringe cases where Envenom works ok. A Mutilate rogue with Imp Poisons and Vile Poisons on a reasonable high-armored boss can do quite well with SnD, Envenom, Rupture. But yea, in general you'd be right.

 

MasterDinadan

Please add Ravager Dog to the buff list. It doesn't stack with Grilled Mudfish / Warp Burger, but is often a better buff and certainly worth being represented on the spreadsheet.

 

Zandig

I didn't see this posted, so I thought I'd throw this out there. It looks like the Netherblade shoulders have gotten their +hit back. The 10 dodge rating has been changed back to 10 hit rating. This makes me a happ(y/ier) rogue.

Also...looks like I better start farming those heroic badges again. The heroic helm is definitively better than tier 4, the searing sunblade is now a likely upgrade from the gladiator's shiv, and the heroic neck is now definitively better than the worgen claw neck.

 

Sokkou

The entire spreadsheet is likely going to need updated soon when the new PTR build goes live on Monday, with the remaining 2/3 of level 70 epics being buffed.

By the way, anyone got an idea on the proc rate of http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29962

 

Rethan

I realize that everyone always says to "use the spreadsheet". My question is however, is there a concensus for combat builds what the magic number for hit rating is? I'm sitting at 293(298 after 2.1 item buffs) and I could easily socket the last bit to 308. My DPS is generally top 2 in my guild considering suboptimal group compositions and the nature of the fights. The spread sheet tells me that if I change out my glinting noble topaz(4hit/4agi) in the sockets on my gear for delicate living rubies(8agi) that I'm gaining spreadsheet DPS.

Edit: The last GNT in my boots changed to a ruby was a DPS downgrade due to the loss of 7hit for 4agility. Eitherway it is a difference of 5dps unbuffed to dump all the hit rating for more agility even losing the socket bonus on 3 items. With combat potency, never missing still seems better but I have no measure of math knowledge to model or decipher this spreadsheet myself.

 

koaschten

i'll have our fury warrior to do some statistic mob bashing .. he got the rogue slot on our astromancer kill over a rogue due to "superior ae abilities".

 

Lodfish

Been a while since I posted in this thread, and I did a search so I'm sorry if i missed it.

I punched in my current gear, with a couple weapon upgrades (Talon of Azshara & compared the new Searing Sunblade/Gladiator's Shiv/Gladiator's Quickblade)

I've already seen how just a couple tenths of speed on OH can make a big dps difference. I was a little surprised to see that Sunblade is better than the quickblade even without Dagger Spec.

Anyway, my actual question. The optimal Cycle shows 1s/5r snd cut for me, and I'm wondering what the "snd cut" means? On the unbuffed cycles page i see 1s/5r on there as well, so there must be some difference, I just can't find what it is.

 

◊ gwystyl

"Cut" means you don't wait out your SnD timer before you refresh it. The 1s/5r "cut" cycle is more about keeping 100% Rupture uptime.

You'll only see that as a result with the 2/5 NB bonus, I believe, which allows you a 17.4s SnD with 1 CP. That's enough time, assuming good ComPot procs, to get a 5CP Rupture up which requires 16s.

Once you have your 5r going, if Ruthlessness procs and you get your free CP, you immediately refresh SnD, you don't wait it out. Otherwise, you SS to grab CP and start SnD, again with no waiting on your part.

 

Lodfish

Interesting, thanks for the info.

now if only I could rupture Hydross or half the bosses in Karazhan.

 

roq

I end up fixing this everytime a new spread sheet comes out. Here is a brief explination of what i do, it is located in post #1295

 

Mo

Incidentally, the same cycles do work for eviscerate, though the dps gains are minimal (on the order of 2 dps compared to a standard 5s/5e cycle). I was curious how it'd work out so I made a modded sheet with low cp s&d/evisc (cut and uncut) cycles.

If there's demand I could post it, but it's not based on the absolute newest version from here, so it's missing some more recent changes.

 

Flailure

Yeah Im already starting to go through and update gear on it. Is anyone taking over the spreadsheet task now that Pf has retired?

 

• Latito

Well, going back to the whole hit rating thing from a while ago.. I did some testing on those immune mobs in SMV for the quest.. kill the totems then kill the guy.. Anyways, I swung at Haalum 6207 times. Now, this'll make it a bit interesting to parse, but I was using a sword in MH (I'm dagger spec) to lvl up the last lvl of sword skill. So, for the first 3009 immune attacks and 84 misses, I had a 1.3 speed OH dagger (360 skill) and a 2.6 speed MH sword (359 skill).

After that I lvl'd and was 360 skill on both weapons.


Ended up with 148 misses, 6059 immunes. Nothing else. Attacked from behind, lvl 70.

At the time I had 245 hit rating, Precision and WeX.

If anyone wanted to test their formulas for miss rates against a lvl 70.. have at it.

 

exog

Last thing i remember on the subject of hitrating was that with precision and weapon expertise you'd cap at ca ~307 hitrating.

I recently got Fel leather pants/boots and currently rest on a very comfortable 250 hitrating.

If the changes from mmo-champ go through too live my gear will give me frellin 323 hitrating (have maulgars helm in bank).

Until now ive valued 1agi=1hit=2ap=1crit when i choose my items, totally disregarding stamina. But now that ive capped the hit threshold im gonna have to devalue hitrating to 0 too.

So the most popular stat for raiding will now be useless for reasonably well-equipped rogues...
Not only will PVE-dps focused rogues shy away from items with stamina, but also hit-rating as it steals from dps-stat budget.

Times sure are changing.

 

koaschten

i hopped onto the PTR and did some _short_ parsing for Tsunami Talisman and Warp-Spring Coil.

Feel free to grab the logs and disect it as you like, i just had a quick look

Tsunami Talisman
http://www.koaschten.de/wow/ptr-chan...20talisman.txt
MH Latro's Mongoose, Offhand a stylish fish, autoattack only.
hits: 267
crits: 110
procs: 12 (~9%)
(mongoose might offset the proc rate, but heck, the sample size is too small anyway)

no miss/parry/dodge occured.
funny thing, sword specc procced the warp-spring coil ...

Warp-Spring Coil
http://www.koaschten.de/wow/ptr-chan...ing%20coil.txt
MH Hope Ender Mongoose, Offhand Latro's Mongoose, all out.
hits: 738
crits: 320
ss hit: 149
ss crit: 73
evi hit: 21
evi crit: 12
sword specc hits: 53 (as warp spring can proc from it, see note on tsunami talisman log)
sword specc crits: 17
no miss/parry/dodge occured.

Tsunami Procs: 22 (19% WTF) (internal cooldown 45 seconds after checking the log)
Warp-Spring Procs: 26 (12,5%) (can chain proc i assume, had power gains below 20sec distance)

In Action Screenshot (left to right: Mongoose, Mongoose, Tsunami Proc, AR, SnD, Warp-Spring Proc)

 

Dread

nevermind what i said :P

http://www.mmo-champion.com/
a bunch of updated 2.1 items