Rogue DPS Spreadsheet - Page 58

mih · 05/08/07, 10:30 AM

http://www.savefile.com/files/704242

2.2.4f
Changed 2.1 items (Patch 6655)
Fixed weapon skill on meta Gems
Changed consumables stats
Added Relentless Earthstorm Diamond (only 12agi, don't know how to add 3% crit dmg)
Added Thundering Skyfire Diamond (240haste on procc) ~80 haste permanently

Questions:
Thundering Skyfire Diamond
Don't know the procrate of it, only read at forums it's like 30%. Anyone knows the accurately procrate?

Relentless Earthstorm Diamond
Don't know how to add 3% crit dmg

Heartrazor
Anyone knows procchance?

Warp-Spring coil
Warp-Spring Procs: 26 (12,5%). That means permanently ~12,5% of 1000 armor penetration?
Added as 125 armor penetration

Tsunami-Talisman
~ap? Added as 38crit/10hit

koaschten · 05/08/07, 11:19 AM

tsunami talisman got an internal cooldown, add it as 340*10/45 ap i'd say, as i was able to reach the internal cooldown with procing at an easy ~30% crit

Tosa · 05/08/07, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by mih

http://www.savefile.com/files/704242

Dagger Spec seems broken. It affects nothing in the spreadsheet for me.

edit; Weird. When I off-hand a non-dagger, the sheets says my dps decreases with every point in dagger spec even with no points in the other weapon specs. With a dagger in both hands, dagger spec does nothing in the sheet.

MasterDinadan · 05/08/07, 12:07 PM

Another consumable that I feel is worth adding is Elixir of Demonslaying. Only works on demons sure... but several TBC raid bosses are demons after all (Magtheridon, Kazzak, etc) and this elixir is now the biggest AP buff we can get with flasks nerfed to 120. Certainly worth being represented on the spreadsheet.

MasterDinadan · 05/08/07, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by Tosa

Dagger Spec seems broken. It affects nothing in the spreadsheet for me.

edit; Weird. When I off-hand a non-dagger, the sheets says my dps decreases with every point in dagger spec even with no points in the other weapon specs. With a dagger in both hands, dagger spec does nothing in the sheet.

That is weird, I'm using Riftmaker and Gladiator's Shiv on my sheet, and changing the value of Dagger Spec definitely affects my DPS.

Tosa · 05/08/07, 12:25 PM

Re-downloaded it and it seem fine now. Don't know what the hell I did wrong there.

Cybelirrae · 05/08/07, 12:34 PM

So with the new PTR stats, what are the must have rogue trinkets now? Seems Dragonspine is still clearly the best and has a nice passive 40 something AP now. Warp spring and Tsunami seem to be the contenders for your second trinket slot. I am leaning towards Tsunami with all that passive hit and crit, but the internal cooldown mentioned above has me leary. Anyone (Aldriana

) have any thoughts?

Safid · 05/08/07, 12:36 PM

When I go from 3 to 4 pieces of Assassination, the flag setting the set bonus is set correctly. When I go from 4 to 3 pieces of Assassination, the flag does not get flipped, so the sheet acts as if I have that set bonus.

Yes, my gear sucks, but any ideas how to fix this? I need to l2excel. Will just writing 'false' in the appropriate cell correct this?

Abaxial · 05/08/07, 12:41 PM

I'd also like to know if someone can get a hold of a Thundering Skyfire Diamond and test the procrate. I'm very interested in picking this gem up if it's as good as I hope it is.

mih · 05/08/07, 1:18 PM

http://www.savefile.com/files/704698

Primal Intent fixed
Replace Winterfall Firewater with Elixir of Demonslaying

Feles · 05/08/07, 1:41 PM

Hiyas. I just did some tests in Blasted Lands with Warp-Spring Coil and here are the results. I tried to imitate raid dps situation to see if the uptime is enough for me so ss, evi, snd, bf and ar were used during the test.

Auto attack:

Hits: 1779
Crtis: 949

Sinister Strike:

Hits: 329
Crits: 157

Eviscerate:

Hits:37
Crits: 25

Total melee hits: 3276
Time in combat: 25min 46s

I got total of 19 Perceived Weakness procs from the Warp-Spring Coil. For comparisong Dragonspine Trophy procced 46 times during the testing. Deathmantle 4 piece set bonus procced 29 times and off hand mongoose procced 29 times too.

I forgot to mention that I was using dagger in mainhand and I had dagger spec because I don't have any swords lying around(forgot to check if other boxes had any swords).

Zoro · 05/08/07, 1:52 PM

And after moving house, I'm back.
Ironically, no net access at home away from home so no WoW for the time being.

Xx/5e cut?
Yeah, shouldn't be a problem to add that. There's already an 'Allow Rupture?' box on the front end, adding the Xs/5e cut versions for NB users should give them the advice for non-rupture fights.
I see that we're still chaining savefile links. I'll work on it tomorrow with the most recent posted - that'd be Mih's I think.

I briefly skimmed through the pages I missed. Most interesting thing I found was Eyonix's post. Sure, it became clear fairly early on that crit was a y=ax+b formula - but seems to me he was verifying that it's the same for dodge, and that's always been harder to check. That has some implications for the viability of future rogue evasion tanking.

• Aldriana · 05/08/07, 2:24 PM

Originally Posted by Cybelirrae

So with the new PTR stats, what are the must have rogue trinkets now? Seems Dragonspine is still clearly the best and has a nice passive 40 something AP now. Warp spring and Tsunami seem to be the contenders for your second trinket slot. I am leaning towards Tsunami with all that passive hit and crit, but the internal cooldown mentioned above has me leary. Anyone (Aldriana

) have any thoughts?

Before I begin: I haven't had a chance to redo my numbers for the latest set of item changes and the like, so what's listed here is probably somewhat inaccurate. When I have better detailed numbers, I'll post them. Until then, I recommend taking this with a grain of salt.

Dragonspine Trophy: 35-40% uptime, 325 haste rating. Hence, effective haste is around 120 haste rating. My current set of numbers values haste rating at just over 2.9 AP per point, so benefit of the haste proc is around 350 AP. And then it has a passive 40 AP as well. Total quality: 390 AP.

Warp-Spring Coil. 21 hit rating at 2.4 AP per hit rating is roughly 50 AP. Using the high end of the estimate Pf made about 400 posts ago, assume 20% uptime, hence equivalency to 200 static armor penetration. By very rough estimates, I have armor penetration worth about .3 AP per point; hence the armor penetration is worth about 60 AP. Total quality: 110 AP.

Tsunami Talisman: 10 hit rating = 24 AP. 38 crit rating = 64 AP. Assuming the 10/45 uptime number is correct, the proc is worth 2/9 * 340 = 76 AP. Total benefit: 164 AP.

Abacus of Violent Odds: 260/12 = 21.67 haste rating. 21.67 * 2.9 = 63 AP. Passive 64 AP. Total benefit: 127 AP.

Bloodlust Brooch: 70 + 270/6 = 115 AP.

Icon of Unyielding Courage: 30 hit rating and 100 armor penetration = 30 * 2.4 + 100 * .3 = 102 AP.

So, brief conclusions:

Dragonspine: 390
Tsunami Talisman: 164
Abacus: 127
BB: 115
WSC: 110
Icon: 102

The only truly must-have trinket is Dragonspine Trophy.

Based on this analysis, Tsunami Talisman is second best.

However, there's a significant caveat here in that my armor penetration model is very much a hack right now, so it's possible that Icon of Unyielding Courage and Warp-Spring Coil are actually better than listed. Particularly since it's rumored that WSC can proc of sword spec procs, which would increase it's uptime by a fair amount. More investigation is needed.

On a related note: does anyone know what a typical armor value for a raid boss is? I tossed in a very rough estimate for my calculations, but I'm wondering if anyone has more precise values.

stickychu · 05/08/07, 2:32 PM

First time poster, long time reader here.

I wanted some advice about the upcoming weapon changes since the spreadsheet seems to not be very stable atm.

I'm currently swordsmith with blazegaurd offhand and I've been working my way towards getting the Gladiator Right Ripper. With the new change to the dps on the T2 BS weapons, I wanted to know if Dragonmaw + Searing Sunblade would be a better route to go instead of Gladiator Right Ripper + Searing Sunblade. As it is now, I feel like I've wasted a lot of time getting blacksmithing to not use my sword and it just seems like it's not as good as I once thought it was, so I was really hoping that maybe going for the Dragonmaw instead would be a better option. Again, I can't really tell since the sword was also buffed up to 91dps, and i haven't had a chance to plug that into the spreadsheet to see exactly how it will effect things. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

• Aldriana · 05/08/07, 2:43 PM

Originally Posted by stickychu

First time poster, long time reader here.

I wanted some advice about the upcoming weapon changes since the spreadsheet seems to not be very stable atm.

I'm currently swordsmith with blazegaurd offhand and I've been working my way towards getting the Gladiator Right Ripper. With the new change to the dps on the T2 BS weapons, I wanted to know if Dragonmaw + Searing Sunblade would be a better route to go instead of Gladiator Right Ripper + Searing Sunblade. As it is now, I feel like I've wasted a lot of time getting blacksmithing to not use my sword and it just seems like it's not as good as I once thought it was, so I was really hoping that maybe going for the Dragonmaw instead would be a better option. Again, I can't really tell since the sword was also buffed up to 91dps, and i haven't had a chance to plug that into the spreadsheet to see exactly how it will effect things. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I suspect we're going to see the arena weapons buffed at some point as well, so I'd hold off on making any major decisions until the patch goes live, if it were me.

koaschten · 05/08/07, 2:46 PM

Originally Posted by Aldriana

However, there's a significant caveat here in that my armor penetration model is very much a hack right now, so it's possible that Icon of Unyielding Courage and Warp-Spring Coil are actually better than listed. Particularly since it's rumored that WSC can proc of sword spec procs, which would increase it's uptime by a fair amount. More investigation is needed.

i dont call this a rumour: http://www.koaschten.de/wow/ptr-chan...20talisman.txt

5/8 12:27:01.609  You crit Servant of Razelikh for 410.
5/8 12:27:01.921  Your Sword Specialization crits Servant of Razelikh for 377.
5/8 12:27:01.921  Servant of Razelikh attacks. You dodge.
5/8 12:27:02.609  You gain Perceived Weakness.
5/8 12:27:02.890  You crit Servant of Razelikh for 392.

• Aldriana · 05/08/07, 2:59 PM

Originally Posted by koaschten

i dont call this a rumour: http://www.koaschten.de/wow/ptr-chan...20talisman.txt

5/8 12:27:01.609  You crit Servant of Razelikh for 410.
5/8 12:27:01.921  Your Sword Specialization crits Servant of Razelikh for 377.
5/8 12:27:01.921  Servant of Razelikh attacks. You dodge.
5/8 12:27:02.609  You gain Perceived Weakness.
5/8 12:27:02.890  You crit Servant of Razelikh for 392.

Yeah, certainly seems likely. I'm just cautious by nature so was holding off on declaring it official just yet.

Related question: if it can proc off SS, can it proc off WF?

saedo · 05/08/07, 3:30 PM

So how does Romeo's Poison Vial rank among the trinkets now? Would it be better than the Icon or worst off?

Tosa · 05/08/07, 5:04 PM

Glancing precentage is still 40% in the sheet. Isn't it going to be about 25%?

Cel · 05/08/07, 5:16 PM

Originally Posted by Tosa

Glancing precentage is still 40% in the sheet. Isn't it going to be about 25%?

There's no specific data that's been gathered on the new glancing rates, as far as I know. I'll be sure to post some parses as soon as the thing hits live, however, if we haven't figured it out just yet.

Darkmiss · 05/08/07, 5:43 PM

just in case you guys haven't seen: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...02900941&sid=1

about the sword spec change on ptr, i'm assuming the same things apply to rogues so that will be pretty interesting, if it is completely accurate.

Poke · 05/08/07, 5:50 PM

Originally Posted by gwystyl

"Cut" means you don't wait out your SnD timer before you refresh it. The 1s/5r "cut" cycle is more about keeping 100% Rupture uptime.

You'll only see that as a result with the 2/5 NB bonus, I believe, which allows you a 17.4s SnD with 1 CP. That's enough time, assuming good ComPot procs, to get a 5CP Rupture up which requires 16s.

Once you have your 5r going, if Ruthlessness procs and you get your free CP, you immediately refresh SnD, you don't wait it out. Otherwise, you SS to grab CP and start SnD, again with no waiting on your part.

This doesn't make any sense to me. If you have SnD time remaining after gaining that one combo point, how can you possibly do more damage by refreshing SnD immediately and taking the risk that SnD will fall off before your next 5r+1cp when you could instead wait to refresh SnD until an energy tick or proc is about to be wasted and then go into the 5r+1cp with a partially filled energy bar?

The "cut" cycles in the spreadsheet look like they attempt to account for the fact that SnD time will typically be wasted in a cycle whose energy gain over the course of its SnD length exceeds the energy expenditure for the cycle on average, because often you will have time left on the buff when you refresh it anyway to avoid wasting energy. But I don't think they should be interpreted to encourage unnecessary waste of SnD time between cycles, because you can always have Relentless and Potency proc droughts that will starve your next cycle if you didn't save the extra energy from the last one.

• gwystyl · 05/08/07, 6:51 PM

Originally Posted by Poke

This doesn't make any sense to me... But I don't think they should be interpreted to encourage unnecessary waste of SnD time between cycles, because you can always have Relentless and Potency proc droughts that will starve your next cycle if you didn't save the extra energy from the last one.

You're interpreting the formulae the way I am, too. The point of the way it was modeled looks to be normalizing the effects of ComPot, Ruthlessness and Relentless procs. The damage generated by a 1cp SnD is scaled down in proportion which to me implies that the right thing to do is to abandon the remaining time on your SnD and focus on getting your 5CP's to refresh Rupture when its ready.

You're talking about a "what if" string of bad luck which is sure to happen. Over the long haul, though, the formulae support abandoning remaining time on SnD as a general rule with the 1s/5r cut. The scenario of waiting out the SnD timer every time is modeled above on the 1s/5r line and the math shows it isn't the optimal solution.

Truth be told, they're so damned close that it's really pot-AY-to / pot-AH-to, but I was simply pointing out what the 1s/5r cut meant.

Xizenta · 05/08/07, 7:02 PM

Originally Posted by Cel

There's no specific data that's been gathered on the new glancing rates, as far as I know. I'll be sure to post some parses as soon as the thing hits live, however, if we haven't figured it out just yet.

If you do any tests, use a small damage range weapon (http://www.thotbott.com/i1194) so we can see exactly what the reduction rate is from a small sample.

Goes for anyone else too.

• Andeh · 05/08/07, 7:09 PM

So I am trying to figure out a way to test if under the new Sword Spec changes the proc uses the hand that proc'd it. The most reasonable method I can think of is to use a very pathetic offhand (like a vendor bought level 3 grey) and an epic mainhand, then go whack on a Blasted Lands Servant. If you start seeing Sword Spec hits that are way, way lower than the rest, you've confirmed that offhand procs use your offhand.

Any better ideas?