Edit: Updated with flowers equipped in the offhand

Here's some Heartrazor data from the test server. Attacked a Servant of Razelikh in Blasted Lands for 15 minutes.

http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report=vf3xs5etpz4ru&a=3

Heartrazor never renewed itself before expiring, so 9 procs should be accurate. 344 hits, 175 crits for 519 attacks total. 9 procs. That's 1.7%

As far as an internal cooldown, I really doubt it has one.

Entire log is here if you guys want to mess with it or look into it further. Hopefully this'll help model it for the spreadsheet.

Looks like the proc is roughly equal to 50 flat ap. Less impressive than I had hoped : /.

So, the stats on the weapon aren't any better than malchazeen.

Plugged the 2.1 Malchazeen stats into the 2.2.4 spreadsheet and added the 2.1 Heartrazor with a flat 50 AP and Heartrazor increases unbuffed DPS by 6.

Check buffed dps change and report back .

Hit scales better. But anyway, I actually just meant the stats and not the dps/damage range upgrade.

Just thought this would be worth adding, in regard to poisons and sword procs.

(MH sword 2.6 speed, wound poison - OH not equipped)
5/12 13:03:02.900 You hit Servant of Grol for 471.
5/12 13:03:04.572 Servant of Grol attacks. You dodge.
5/12 13:03:05.603 You hit Servant of Grol for 473.
5/12 13:03:05.900 Your Sword Specialization hits Servant of Grol for 449.
5/12 13:03:05.900 Your Wound Poison hits Servant of Grol for 66 Nature damage.
5/12 13:03:05.900 Your Wound Poison hits Servant of Grol for 66 Nature damage.
5/12 13:03:06.806 Servant of Grol hits you for 65.
5/12 13:03:08.025 You hit Servant of Grol for 403.
5/12 13:03:08.618 Servant of Grol attacks. You parry.
5/12 13:03:09.540 You crit Servant of Grol for 919.

I know combat log timestamps can be a little funny at times, but these are pretty convincing. It's odd I was unable to get any poison procs off a sword proc that came from a shiv (0/42). Maybe sword procs that come from white damage and sword procs that come from specials work differently, or maybe shiv is just weird? I tried testing sinister strike at an angle so as not to get any white damage and looking for something like SS->swordproc->2xpoison, but no luck so far.

Can someone please confirm that the Latro's Shifting Sword is better than the Gladiator's Quickblade even after the next patch?

I updated my profile with my Armory Link...

Asking this to try and decide which one I should get a mongoose enchant on (and even if I should buy the Quickblade), do you think at some point the Gladiator's Quickblade will out-do the Latros?

Also, interestingly, I entered my gear and spec and I lost a great deal of buffed dps, I assume due to the potions nerf.
Has anyone done any work on figuring out if any selection of potions could out-do the flask?

(the spec in my armory link is wrong, I realised this after respecing from pvp spec for the arenas, it will be changed tomorrow :P)

In the cycles page, I've tinkered a lot with the already existent cycles and values and have a cursory understanding of most of the values from experimenting and from this thread. However, I wanted to add shiv as an instant attack option and create an entirely new table to mess around with shiv cycles.

At first, I just changed energy cost of SS and adjusted the SS DPS to emulate a shiv, but I'm fairly sure there'll be backlash for that. I'd be thankful if someone could elucidate for me how to add a completely new instant attack into the options on the cycle page.

I figure if I can emulate an accurate and optimal shiv cycle, I can find out once and for all whether shiv has a place in raiding at all.

Latros an Quickblade are equal, and quickblade isn't buffed yet. If arena weapons get a buff, quickblade > latros.

Troll agility is 160 when naked and without talents, not 163.

Probably posted before, but 1500 posts is a lot.

The problem is, part of your dmg from Shiv is the poison proc, which won't scale. Doesn't matter if you have 1k or 3k AP, that instant poison will always hit the same. Sure the OH swing dmg will go up with better daggers/buffs, but the poison part won't. Thus, the better your gear and buffs, the crappier Shiv becomes.

I'd be interested in seeing a shiv/poisons/sword build with something like two gladiators quickblades (edit, you cant actually have two now, but you get the idea), DP MH/IP OH, either poison talents or all the way up to surprise attacks in combat, and just spam shiv.

I have a feeling it may either be pretty effective, or downright awful.

Feel free to infract me if this is too moronic a question, but how much does the offhand speed matter if you're not Combat spec?

Yes, more poison procs - but on the other hand you're using the offhand to maintain a Deadly Poison stack, so extra procs really don't do much.

Reason I ask is that I'm about to make the Blacksmith hammer, and I'm wondering whether to put my existing Blinkstrike in my offhand, or stick to the soon-to-be nerfed Guile of Khoraazi.

My shiv/envenom build...

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=w0eboyZGcVbrVzxMMot

I plan on trying this with a gladiator's offhand and a latro's mainhand.

That's almost exactly what I wanted to try. Please keep us updated on how it works

Maybe even jump on the PTR and give it a whirl on the servants or something else :P

You'd be surprised how closely both scale. You're right about the poison component not scaling, but more efficient SnD cycles *do* scale.

Blizzard may also start incorporating new ranks of of poisons through books, much like the AQ era.

Hmmm... based on the possibly upcoming sword spec changes, the item buffs, and the fact that I can't accurately model the new sword spec changes: whats the general feeling about Emerald Ripper/Riftmaker Combat Mutilate vs Vindi/Gladi OH Sword?

I'd like to eventually grab Spiteblade/Gladi, but at the moment the four weapons I have are Ripper, Riftmaker, Vindi's, and Latro's.

Figured that might be an answer. However as I understand it, the evidence is saying that armor mitigation on bosses is a much bigger factor that anticipated: does this change the balance of power in favour of ruptures and Envenoms? I know there was some calculation on it way back when in the behemoth of a thread - I even tried to contribute, but I don't think the armor factor was fully accounted for then. How does it pan out with what we now know? I freely admit I don't have the skills to work it out myself.

Envenom.. just no

Rupture is ideal, yes, and if you are using Rupture in your cycles instead of Eviscerate, Mutilate builds will see more benefit than combat builds will, but its still not enough extra damage to make it preferable, even with quite high mitigation from armor.

The spreadsheet allows the use of rupture in cycles as I'm sure you are aware. Changing the armor mitigation is quite easy to do as well (M3 on the Unbuffed DPS or Buffed DPS sheet) so play around with it and see what kind of results you get.

I am still trying to comprehend this total dislike for envenom. For a combat mutilate build, i get the strong feeling it is definately superior to evis.

1) Envenom has find weakness applied to it, but the DP stack you are sacrificing does not
2) Additional poison damage talents
3) Bonus proc talents of a mutilate build means it stacks back up very quickly
4) Shadowpriest also enhances the damage of it
5) All added damage from the AP multiplier isn't mitigated either, (i.e. damage scales up better with AP than evis when poison damage lost from DP hasn't changed)

I'm inclined to agree, even more so with a stormstrike from a shaman on the target or other factors. Just last night I hit a 4526 envenom on a boss... you just don't see things like that with eviscerate.

What hurts Envenom is that it consumes Deadly Poison, which is excellent dps. With full poison talents, a shadow priest and Stromstrike it would be worth it. Otherwise it isn't. imo.