Tosa

I haven't been swords in a few months, but when did Sword Spec proc off-hand swings?

 

fool

I have no idea, but i been testing for 3 days now, and thats the results im seeing.

Almost identical every time.

Combat daggers gives 8-9

Combat swords gives 10-14

Procs per minute.


No idea why that is happening but it is. Damage reflects it too.

 

Melnor

Does anyone else have the availability to weapons that fool does to replicate / test his claims?

The last sword I ever looted was Vis'kag!

 

Duskmourn

I just need a dagger MH to be able to. Like you the last dagger I ever looted(from a boss) was at like level 60 a year ago. I can't count glad shiv.

 

fool

I was only gonna test it for fun since i just got spiteblade.

I expected sword potency to be near half to dagger potency due to speed of offhand.



So... I am rather shocked myself, but its been like this last 3 days non stop raiding. Same results.

 

fool

Ok now i used Procwatch and procmeter at same time.

Just in case an addon was freaking out.

It confirms it.

Something is making the offhand proc more with SS. and the offhand is slower than daggers.



i can only guess that offhand procced SS hits, count as offhand extra hits for Combat Potency, even though they proc MH white damate atm.

 

Tosa

What do the procwatch-type mods look for? If it looks for "You gain XX Energy ..." then it might be counting Relentless as well.

 

Cel

If it's picking up Relentless, that would make sense with the number of finishers a SS build throws compared to Daggers. Try running a proc watch with no finishers and just autoattack on a Blasted Land's mob.

"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge." - Bertrand Russell

Alpha is recruiting... go go.

 

fool

Ok i will autoattack mobs, and come up with the comparison of sword spec vs daggers and paste screenies

 

Backpain

I'm not sure I follow you.

Also, I understood that blue post OFF was the standard convention.

 

Xizenta

Well it's hard to explain. Crit isn't good for any build, it's almost always a waste of item budget. Hit and Haste are the two best bang for your buck for swords, more-so than for daggers, but theyre also the best for daggers at the same time. So, you see, the best stats for swords are the best stats for daggers as well, but they are the best by a greater margin.

I think that's what's great about swords, some stats are appreciated so much that you can min-max like that to really put out good dps. Get a Dragonspine trophy and an abacus with capped hit, then raise your ap (not crit) since it helps rupture damage and crit doesn't. Agi is still worth it over AP at more than the 2:1 price that blizzard uses in gems and gear.

Crit and hit both cost one agility but crit is not equal to 1 agi in damage output nor in defensive value (dodge,armor.)

Hit-cap > All haste gear > agi > ap > crit








That 8>10 to 9>14 is more than a 5% difference, couldn't possibly be sword spec even if it did proc offhand swings.


It must at the very least be somewhat attributed to him being human, he has sword skill and fewer OH attacks are missing... Probably some of this is a mistake or exaggeration, or not a large enough sample. 8>9 is believable, 9>14 is kinda... expected to be disproven over the next few days.

 

roq

If you read the quote i posted under my comment, you will see that the values i change affect the ones that would be selected if you had the blue post selected. I personally decided not to change the default values, so i could always go back to what everyone else is seeing if i choose to do that. See post 1295, where i give a little more detail on what i am doing.

If you still need more clarification PM me, since i don't want to clutter up the boards with this information.

 

• Latito

Ok, so pretty much the same as combat daggers.. just even more extreme. Thanx for the reply . I used to be a Mut build and a crit junky. As I've been slowly moving my gear over more and more towards hit I've watched my crit drop and my dps skyrocket. Its funny now, looking at other rogues with 30% crit and only 100 hit.

Oh, and I do recognize the value of haste.. it is the best scaling stat out there, especially for a combat rogue (cpot!). Unfortunately Gruul hasn't dropped his trophy yet for my guild, but I'm saving my dkp for it. Looking forward to trophy + Abacus.

Out of curiosity, why would 8-Agi > 16-AP if you value AP > Crit? Right now I'm still just a bit under the hit cap (282), so I'm putting 4agi/4hit gems in read slot in new gear I get (I don't bother replacing blue gems with other blue gems :P). In the future once I can use red slots for 8-agi or 16-ap, why would you recomend the agi?

 

Graecus

I'd figure when you stack on a lot more AGI than AP, a Kings / Mastery combo is hot considering the stat increase, not to mention the crit / dodge / ap it gives anyway.

Precision in Paradise

 

Xizenta

Agi gives more crit than it probably should if it's intended to be equal in value to a crit rating for rogues, also because of kings as someone else mentioned.

 

gummy2

Are you shiving as your main spam? That would explain it.

 

Cel

Could a couple rogues who have reached the 308 (I guess?) hit cap post saying so? I'd like to have some armory listings to take a look at to compare my gear selections with, and the armory doesn't have a search feature that can do that for me. :c I wasn't combat for a while after the xpack hit, and have just recently started gearing for +hit, so I'm still in the process of having the gear for my spec.

"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge." - Bertrand Russell

Alpha is recruiting... go go.

 

Backpain

Ippon.


nuff said.

 

◊ Shaker

My gear is close to it ... 301, though it'll get a few more points with the karazhan upgrades. I'm using mostly blues and mostly green gems, so it's VERY doable.

 

◊ Shaker

Oh, also - http://www.wowmetrics.com is now starting to list rogues, so you can look there as well.

 

Cel

Yeah I know it's doable, I'm just curious who's using what to get to that goal. I haven't abandoned all my socket bonuses for +hit just yet. :P

"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge." - Bertrand Russell

Alpha is recruiting... go go.

 

Zyz

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...olupgrades.jpg

Only at 277 hit now, but the patch puts me at the cap. (could be a bit over, due to weapon expertise)
Check armory for my current gear, hopefully it has all of my pve gear saved.

 

Rethan

I'm at 304, and my trinket sucks. With the item changes I opted to not resocket some of my 4hit/4agi gems to hit 308. But at least you can get an idea of what is being used. With the item buffs, I believe 308 is very manageable without the wastewalker bonus, but 8hit gems will need to be used for socketing instead of 4hit/agi most likely.

Post patch, I will probably be moving to a girdle of treachery with 2 8agi gems socketed in it.

 

Anddacin

What is the bugged lower cap on +hit for the spreadsheet? It gives me more dps with 3agi/3hit gems than 6 hit gems, i'm not sure if its because of the lowered cap or not. Should I be using 6 hit gems over 3agi/3hit in yellow and 3agi/3hit up until the cap? (Not using rare gems until I get my wishlist gear, of course)

Current stats are 1610 ap, 167 hit, 22% crit.

 

rj

Is there a version of the spreadsheet with the 2.1 sword spec yet?